The legal operations community was barely nascent a decade ago. Now there is a booming LegalOps profession and a number of professional associations have sprouted up to help the community learn and collaborate. Legal Operators is one of those communities. We asked the founder of Legal Operators, Colin McCarthy, to come on the show and talk about why he took a small legal ops community that started with a few people doing TED-Talk style presentations over drinks, to a community of thousands. Legal Operators produces online learning programs, a list of legal operations software and services, job board, and an innovation hub in order to support the growing legal operations profession.

Recently, Legal Operators created a magazine with the planned distribution in the tens of thousands. While this may seem outside of what you would think a technology-forward operations would do, McCarthy says he believes in doing the unexpected, and providing the best platform for the distribution of knowledge and information. Even if that means going “old-school” from time to time. Check out the online version of the Legal Operators Magazine here.

In September, Legal Operators is hosting the Summit By the Sea at Half Moon Bay, California. The September 14-16, 2022 curated, in-person event is designed for 100 legal ops professionals to gather together and share in conversation, networking, and best practices exchanges. There are a few seats still available.

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Information Inspirations

If you are looking for great podcast content that includes some of our peers in the legal community, check out Steven Poor’s Pioneers and Pathfinders podcast where he’s recently brought on the likes of Ed Walters, Colin Levy, Bob Ambrogi, and more.

Speaking of Bob Ambrogi, check out his article, “Why Legal Tech Fans Should Attend AALL in July” on his LawSites blog. Bob is a long-time supporter of the law library and legal information profession and has said for years that the AALL conference is truly a legal tech conference as well as an information conference. Add to this, it is in Denver this year, and you now have multiple reason to attend.

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Transcript

Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 161 – Colin McCarthy of Legal Operators on Building a LegalOps Community

I had the good fortune to attend the first in-person CLOC Global Institute in three years. It was an extremely positive experience. Unfortunately, I came home to find I was different kind of positive (new reality; unsurprising after three weeks of travel). I was therefore not able to timely complete my final CGI Dispatch for Artificial Lawyer. Blogs, however, have no deadlines.

To recap:

Dispatch #1 discussed the rise of legal ops in the context of ever-increasing scale, organizational complicatedness, and legal complexity.

Dispatch #2 covered the stellar pre-conference Legal Ops 101 session, highlighting the importance of education when most legal ops roles are net new and, therefore, being filled by individuals with no prior experience.

Dispatch #3 reported on the first day of CGI, which was bookended by sessions on storytelling (one of my favorite topics).

Dispatch #4 was to be a reflection piece. While I could have done without the multiple days of fatigue and brain fog, I am glad I had the opportunity to truly reflect.

Let me set the scene.

LARGE CONFERENCE ROOM — BELLAGIO, LAS VEGAS — CLOC GLOBAL INSTITUTE — LEGAL OPS 101

The presenters are lined up on stage at the end of a three-hour session built around the CLOC Core 12. The Q&A session is commencing. I am part of a sold-out audience of 170+.

Question: At a company where legal ops is new, which of the Core 12 would you start with?

Presenter1: Well, I began by getting the DMS under control.

Me (mouthing silently): What? No?

Presenter2: Typically, ebilling and outside counsel rates get attacked first.

Me (shaking head and whispering): But…but…

Presenter3: Knowledge management.

Me (clutching table and muttering compulsively): No! No! You start with the business! The business!

Presenter4: Department budgeting.

Me (spontaneously combusts)

END SCENE

The above is not a literal transcript. But it is a fair recounting of the conclusion of the excellent Legal Ops 101. What was unfair was my reaction.

While I have been wrong many times before (here, here), I stand by my substantive point in this instance. I am a broken record (most recently, here) about the importance, and unfortunate absence, of centering business needs in law department planning.

But being right is different than being fair. Continue Reading CLOC Global Institute – Reflection (Delayed)

We all know that it takes some “outside of the box thinking” to help improve the legal system in the United States, especially when it comes to Pro Se litigants. Courtroom5 CEO and co-founder Sonja Ebron does exactly that with her startup focused on guiding Pro Se litigants through complex court processes. Ed Walters, CEO and co-founder of Fastcase wants the legal industry to stop trying so hard to reinforce that “box.” Together, Ebron and Walters are creating a process to help litigants access and navigate the court system through a combination of case process instructions, legal information, Artificial Intelligence, and collaboration with legal professionals. Eventually, Ebron would like to see the courts themselves leverage Courtroom5’s abilities to help those seeking legal recourse.

Walters stresses that the “North Star” of legal practice should be the wellbeing of clients. In a system where according to The World Justice Project, over 75% of legal needs go unmet, and some 80% of citizens seeking judicial action do so without the use of legal professionals. Part of that solution lies with the courts and the need to focus on the ability “to filter out people who need lawyers helping people who don’t.”

Once again, this is not about replacing lawyers with robots, or encouraging Pro Se litigants to not seek legal assistance. Courtroom5 and Fastcase are seeking ways to improve the overall process of placing the right information in front of litigants, at the right time. Even if those instructions are to highly recommend seeking legal counsel.

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Jerry David DeCicca

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Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 160 – Sonja Ebron and Ed Walters Collaborate on Courtroom5 and Fastcase to Help Pro Se Litigants Access Justice

When three legal innovators gather together in their town of Houston, the topic drifts toward the interesting innovation and creativity hubs happening around the city. Both inside and outside of law firms. In a special “after-hours” episode of The Geek in Review, we talk with Norton Rose Fulbright US’ Head of Innovation, Zack Barnes. The conversation is a diverse as the city. We talk about the The Ion innovation epicenter and Zack’s interest in how these types of innovation hubs can use help from the law firms within the city to help guide entrepreneurs in the early stages. 
In addition to the conversation revolving around legal innovation and creativity, we also talk on Zack’s experiences with creating and writing patents as a start-up entrepreneur himself, and finding other start-ups to invest in for companies like Halliburton. One big difference between innovation within corporations and innovation within law firms is the story that the innovators need to tell. At corporations, it’s about establishing a viable product, where at law firms, the story is more around the value and the relationship enhancements to the clients.
Zack also describes how he went to college to be a mountain bike racer and how that love of speed expanded to a faster, but less bone breaking hobby of racing Corvettes. To top things off, we lubricate the discussion with some wonderful local Houston beers. Buckle up and grab your own favorite beverage as we talk all things innovation and happenings here in our favorite city of Houston. Let us know if you are ever in town and we can take you to one or more of the great innovation and brewing spots around town.

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Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 159 – After-Hours with NRF’s Zack Barnes

We are all pretty familiar with the phrase “Legal Tech.” Maya Markovich and Yousef Kassim would like you to also become more familiar with the phrase “Justice Tech” as well. In fact, they have a new trade association focused on this issue called the Justice Technology Association or JTA. Justice Tech is defined as those companies which build tech solutions which are designed to improve or open access to legal rights, improve outcomes, and increase equity within a system that is stacked against users who are often going it alone in the justice system. Yousef Kassim’s product, EasyExpunctions.com is one example.
Maya Markovich is the Executive Director of JTA, and along with founders like Yousef Kassim and a diverse board of advisors, JTA is looking to leverage technology to help those seeking access to justice. This group of founders and advisors are not limited to lawyers, as access to justice is not a problem that can be solved by lawyers alone. JTA brought in engineers, policy advisors, academics, venture capitalists, and a wide range of other professionals to help guide the mission of the trade association. You can learn more at JusticeTechAssociation.org.
LegalWeek Crystal Ball Question:
We wind down our series of LegalWeek Crystal Ball responses with another former guest, Steve Embry. Steve recently wrote on his TechLaw Crossroads blog about the desire to be in the office less, and what that means for law firms when it comes to office space, training, and culture. Embry doesn’t see it as all doom and gloom as some law firm leaders might.
Links:

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Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
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Jerry David DeCicca

Transcript

Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 158 – Justice Technology Association’s Maya Markovich and Yousef Kassim

For many of us, what we think of when we hear “American Lawyer Media”, we think of lots of print newspapers, magazines, The American Lawyer, and the AmLaw 100/200 lists. Bill Carter, CEO of the newly re-branded ALM, sees the tremendous value of the data that ALM collects much more than just the news articles it produces. When Carter took over the reins at ALM in 2012, he evaluated the company like a consultant, and determined that the best path forward was through consolidation of titles through the evolution of law.com; moving away from individual subscriptions to an enterprise model, and; focus on the wealth of data compiled by ALM and find ways to leverage that data as the path forward for the company. We have an amazing look into what ALM is doing these days and a peek at what Bill Carter would like to do in the near future.

Links to Items Discussed:
LegalWeek Crystal Ball Answer

This week’s Crystal Ball answer comes to us from Ken Crutchfield of Wolters Kluwer. Ken is monitoring all of the exciting legal technologies that are springing out of the AI explosion and who will be the winners, and who will be the losers as things shake out.

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Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 157 – ALM’s Bill Carter – It’s All About the Data

[Note: We are big supporters of legal standards here at 3 Geeks, so we asked Damien Riehl to convert his presentation at the SKILLS conference into a blog post regarding the work being conducted at SALI for Legal Matter Specification Standards. – GL]

This is a brief introduction to The SALI Alliance. SALI (which stands for Standards Advancement for the Legal Industry) is a nonprofit that provides a framework to standardize legal data to improve legal business management. SALI’s Legal Matter Specification Standard (LMSS) includes 10,000 tags that enable users to extract legal insights — both for legal substance and business. SALI’s LMSS codes improve business intelligence initiatives; data-science initiatives; AI initiatives; and interoperability among clients, legal service providers, and tech and data providers.

Generating insights from data requires first having structured, tagged data across business systems. SALI provides that structure, serving three types of stakeholders. Here are some examples:

  1. Buyers (i.e., clients) frequently want to know “Which firms and service providers are the best fit for a particular legal matter?” 
  2. Providers (e.g., firms) want to respond, “Of course, we are the best fit for you, client.”
  3. Vendors want to provide solutions that support other stakeholders. 

[IMAGE CAPTION: Each blue item is a SALI tag.]
Buyers/Clients have multiple questions as they manage their portfolio of suppliers and individual matters. In the questions below, each bolded item in point brackets is a SALI tag (field). 

  • Who has experience in this particular <Area of Law>
  • Which is likely to provide this <Result>
  • Which have provided <Document> at what cost? 
  • How does the cost differ in <Jurisdiction_X>? 
  • In <Jurisdiction_X>, what is the risk of litigation for <Claim>?

Other key tags that buyers need include Services, Objectives, Causes of Action, and about 10,000+ other items. SALI counts all of these.

Providers (e.g., firms and alternative legal service providers) want to expand existing client relationships and create new ones by determining:

  1. Which other law firms are providing <Service> in this <Area of Law>? 
  2. Which competitors does this client also hire for <Service>? 
  3. Which other <Areas of Law> might our client need? 

The SALI tags enable firms to generate those types of analytic insights. 

Vendors provide applications (e.g., analytics, billing, research, eDiscovery, legal project management) that are fueled by SALI. The standard’s 10,000 tags are the underpinning for many of the industry’s most-advanced AI and data-analytics projects. And because vendors are adopting SALI’s LMSS — as a data standard — that data is interoperable. Vendors, firms, and clients can move data amongst themselves interchangeably. 

Tagging Professionals’ Work Product

As lawyers and legal professionals deliver legal services, they create documents. Unknowingly, that work product creates “hidden data exhaust” — language to be mined and tagged using SALI fields. SALI tags can be used on (1) matters, (2) documents, and (3) tasks.

  • Matter tags. Organizations can tag their legal work at the matter level. For example, SALI has tags that can categorize a matter under:
    • Area of Law (e.g., Banking Law, Intellectual Property Law)
    • Service (e.g., Advice, Disputes, Transactional)
    • Industry (e.g., Health Care, Real Estate)
    • Location (e.g., EU, China)
    • Forum and Venue (e.g., N.D. Cal., NY City Court, Immigration Court)
  • Document tags. Users can also tag particular document types and components:
    • Document Types (e.g., Merger Agreement, Motion to Dismiss)
    • Document Components (e.g., Claims, Contractual Clauses, Remedies)
    • Actor / Player (e.g., Borrower, Acquiror, Plaintiff, Third-Party Defendant)
  • Task tags. SALI has also collected many tags related to legal work itself:
    • Events (e.g., Closing, Appraisal, Due Diligence, Oral Argument, Trial)
    • Services (e.g., Deposition, Settlement Practice, Appellate Briefing Practice)
  • Thousands of other tags.

So with SALI’s 10,000 tags, organizations can cover both high-level tagging (e.g., matters) and granular tagging (e.g., documents with “legal propositions” that include “breach of contract” and “borrower”). 

Timekeeping entries also include data exhaust. For example, a patent-infringement case (SALI tags: Patent Law + Dispute) could output time entries that include the words “deposition” or “affidavit” or “summary judgment brief” — each of which is a SALI tag. So a user can tag up time entries to determine how long it takes to perform a particular task (e.g., deposition) for a particular legal area (e.g., Patent Law + Disputes).

Nearly every piece of legal work product can be mined for value. That value can be quantified using SALI tags.

Manual Tagging vs. Programmatic Tagging vs. Hybrid

Organizations could tag their matters, documents, tasks, and timekeeping in several ways — each with varying degrees of effort.

  • Manual Tagging. Tagging items manually is very accurate, though time consuming. 
  • Programmatic tagging. Some SALI-endorsing vendors (e.g., Fastcase, Intapp) use SALI tags to extract these types of granular items programmatically — automatically, without human intervention. Users can have standardized, tagged-up data — ready for analytics and interoperability — with less or minimal effort from users (e.g., lawyers, firms, clients).
  • Hybrid Tagging. Organizations could do a mix of these, running queries (programmatic) with a QA step (manual) to ensure accuracy.
    • For example, organizations seeking all motions to dismiss could query their DMS for `(motion /2 dismiss)` and then:
      • Select all
      • Deselect false positives
    • This hybrid approach can both:
      • Expedite tagging
      • Improve precision (accuracy)

Insights from SALI Tagging

Tagging enables advanced and powerful analytics. Once you’ve tagged up matters, documents, or timekeeping — using standardized SALI codes — those tags can provide analytic insights. 

For example, after populating a dataset with SALI tags, you can obtain insights to questions like “Show me all our patent litigation matters where we represented computer and high-tech clients who were defendants.”  The image below shows the value of tagging using SALI tags.

Because each of the things that I’ve just described is a SALI field, users can run a query on the SALI tags Patent Law (Area of Law) + Dispute (Service) + Computer & High Tech (Industry) +  Defendant (Actor / Player). 

Notably, SALI wisely separates Areas of Law from the Service provided:

  • Area of Law = Patent Law
  • Service 
    • Disputes (e.g., patent litigation)
    • Regulatory (e.g., patent prosecution)
    • Transactional (e.g., patent licensing)
    • Advisory (e.g., patent advice)
    • Restructuring / Bankruptcy (e.g., patent assets)

 

That separation of Area of Law from Service greatly simplifies the SALI taxonomy — and increases its power. For SALI’s dozens of Areas of Law, there is no need for Area of Law to be bogged down by five subtypes (e.g., Disputes, Regulatory, Transactional, Advisory, Regulatory/Bankruptcy) for each area.  Instead, permitting the “tagging” gives the same results, but in a much more simplified form. Fewer tags and more flexibility.

In addition, tagging the Service also permits users to run queries on a particular Service (e.g., Regulatory, Disputes, Transactional) across many Areas of Law (e.g., Banking Law, Patent Law, Health Law) and many different Industries (e.g., Manufacturing, Pharmaceuticals).

Industry Interoperability

Because SALI is a legal-data standard, which has growing adoption from the legal industry’s biggest players, it enables interoperability across the legal ecosystem. Much like the financial industry has ISO and FIBO — which enables banks and financial institutions to move money and data across organizations — the legal industry now has SALI, which enables clients, providers, and vendors to move data across organizations. 

Because more and more players use the same SALI tags, interoperability is now possible. In the past, people were counting the same item (e.g., Banking Law), but interoperability required mapping all the fields between each of the legal ecosystem’s thousands of players. That’s time-consuming and expensive.

SALI is solving that problem: As a standard, it can provide interoperability. Since everyone uses the same SALI tag for Banking Law, all of the stakeholders (e.g., firm X, client Y, vendor 1, vendor 87) can move data between each other. The SALI API working group is currently crafting the SALI API language. If you’d like to join in that work, please let us know.

 

Bridging Substantive Law and the Business of Law

One of SALI’s biggest strengths is that it merges two aspects of legal practice:

  1. Substantive Law. How do we win or lose? How do we get the deal done?
  2. Business of Law. How much will it cost?  What is our profit margin?

SALI tags help with both because they are related. 

  • Business of Law. How much does a Deposition cost? 
  • Substantive Law. Well, that depends — is it a…
    • …depo for Patent Infringement Claim
    • …depo for Slip-and-Fall Negligence Claim

Substantive factors affect business variables. SALI counts both. With SALI tags, one is able to determine both: 

  1. How do various tags affect cost? 
  2. And how do we use those insights to deliver services more effectively?

Browsing SALI’s LMSS: WebProtégé

 

All 10,000 of SALI’s tags are displayed in the Stanford tool WebProtégé. Using the tool, you can easily explore the SALI taxonomy/ontology by both browsing and searching:

  • Browse the various types and subtypes using the left-hand side arrows 
  • Search for specific terms, jumping directly to its location in the hierarchy

Because WebProtégé has connected its thousands of tags through conceptual relationships, that enables technologists to more easily bring together disparate concepts. A common scenario: “A new potential client is in the Transportation Industry — what have we done in that area?”

Because SALI has connected the tag Maritime Negligence with Maritime Law and the Transportation Industry, a quick query for Transportation Industry can show results with all Maritime Negligence documents.


Multiple Parentage. Also important, SALI tags can have multiple parents, which reflects the world — and legal concepts — and how they work. For example, you could ask three lawyers “What kind of claim is Negligent Misrepresentation?”

  • Lawyer 1: “It’s a Negligence claim.”
  • Lawyer 2: “It’s a Misrepresentation claim.”
  • Lawyer 3. “It’s a Defamation claim.”
  • All three are right. How do you choose?

With SALI, you don’t need to choose: It’s all three. Because that model (multiple parentage) reflects the legal reality: Negligent Misrepresentation is a negligence claim and a defamation claim and a misrepresentation claim. Search for “negligence claims” tag and you’ll get Negligent Misrepresentation. Same with a search for “defamation claims” tag.  All roads lead to the right answer.

SALI’s 10,000 tags are filled with this kind of thoughtful complexity — which can better provide user simplicity. SALI tags reflect the legal world — both in substance and in business.

Conclusion

In a sense, SALI’s 10,000 tags are the DNA of the law: Nearly everything that matters, both to legal business and to legal substance. SALI has collected 10,000+ fields/tags that matter. Our membership — and our number of tags — both keep growing.

Would you like to help shape the SALI legal-data standard? Please visit SALI.org or email info@sali.org.

When it comes to dockets, the holy grail for most of us has always been state trial court dockets. Nicole Clark, CEO and co-founder of Trellis also felt that way when she was practicing, and decided that she would find a way to access and obtain that treasure trove of data that was always just out of reach. Nicole sits down with us this week to tell us the story behind her mission to seek out local court information, clean up the data, and create a method of analyzing that data. As anyone who has ever worked with trial court dockets, you understand how difficult a task this really is.

Nicole says that Trellis is on a mission to add a county court a day and to find additional ways that the information can be sliced, diced, and analyzed with the help of artificial intelligence (AI) processes like natural language processing (NLP) and through upcoming API access. She also walks us through some of the unique ways her customers use the data, and that the value of trial court data isn’t just limited to the legal field. The once elusive state court data is now becoming more and more available through platforms like Trellis, so the opportunities for legal researchers to take advantage of this wealth of information is expanding, literally by the day.

In a first, Nicole and Trellis is offering a free trial for TGIR listeners:

Listener PerkTrellis is providing Geek In Review podcast listeners with complimentary 14-day access to its state trial court research & analytics platform!  Gain insights and intelligence on judges, verdicts, opposing counsel, motions, rulings, dockets and other legal issues.  Click here to try Trellis for free today.

LegalWeek Crystal Ball Question

This week we ask Casetext’s Robert Armbruster to look into his crystal ball and tell us what he sees in the next few years when it comes to our expectations on how search tools like Casetext will evolve.

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Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 156 – Nicole Clark on Trellis and State Trial Court Docket Analytics

We have a number of repeat guests on the show this week, but all with new stories to tell since their last appearance. 
Nikki Shaver and Jeroen Plink have joined forces to launch Legaltech Hub. Their mission is to provide a single place for those of us looking at legal technology so that we can have a clear picture of who are the players in legaltech solutions. We talk about how the two began their collaboration efforts to expand upon Nikki Shaver’s original idea for Legaltech Hub and launch it as a startup business. 
For those of us in the legal industry, whether it is a practicing lawyer, knowledge management, IT, library professional or other allied professionals, we all understand that when it comes to evaluating technology in the legal industry, it can be overwhelming. Jeroen and Nikki discuss how they set up the structure of Legaltech Hub, and who are the intended, and even the aspirational users of this system.
We also discuss the competitors in the industry and how they believe Legaltech Hub distinguishes itself from the pack.

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A quick shoutout to our friend Chevazz Brown for the resent launch of his DiversePro mobile app. 
Crystal Ball Question
This week’s LegalTech Crystal Ball question is answered by another TGIR Alumni, Sameena Kluck. Sameena sees an improvement in personal branding and authenticity in the legal profession.
Alumni Episodes:
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Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 155 – Nikki Shaver and Jeroen Plink on the Launching of the Legaltech Hub

For those of us who went to law school, a large percentage probably assumed we’d graduate, take the bar, and practice law. But, sometimes life takes you in a different direction. Today’s guest fits that mold, and also decided to talk with 15 other law school grads who also found careers outside the traditional legal practice. Adam Pascarella is the Founder of Second Order Capital Management, and the author of the new book, Reversed in Part: 15 Law School Grads on Pursuing Non-Traditional Careers. Within the book, you’ll also find two former TGIR guests, Ayelette Robinson and Richard Hsu.

Reversed in Part is designed to give inspiration and some practical insights from professionals who followed their passions and how their legal career experiences helped them along the way. Adam tells us how he essentially used the interviews to help guide himself into a career outside of BigLaw and take the risk to start his own business.

LegalWeek Crystal Ball Question

This week we hear from Michael Burns, Chief Revenue Officer at Steno on what he sees for the legal industry when he peers into his crystal ball. For the industry to improve, it’s going to take the help of allied professionals, automation, and even API integration to make it a reality.

Congrats to Marlene

For those who haven’t seen yet, Marlene was included in the ABA’s Legal Technology Resource Center’s Women of Legal Tech 2022Such a great list of leaders, including five former guests. It was nice of the ABA’s LTRC to give us an additional list of eleven more leaders who we need to get on the podcast!!

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Transcript

Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 154 – Adam Pascarella’s “Reversed in Part” – 15 Stories of Non-Traditional Careers After Law School