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This week we welcome Raghu Ramanathan, President of Legal Professionals at Thomson Reuters, for an insightful discussion on the profound impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on the legal industry. Bringing a fresh perspective shaped by his extensive background in technology leadership at companies like SAP and strategy consulting with McKinsey, Raghu shares why he believes the legal sector, alongside healthcare, stands at the forefront of the AI revolution. His journey into the legal tech world, driven by the transformative potential of AI, sets the stage for a deep dive into current trends, future predictions, and the strategic initiatives shaping the future of law.

Central to the conversation is Raghu’s updated perspective on the evolution of law firms, revisiting predictions he first made in 2017. He outlines a compelling framework describing “three waves” of AI adoption currently underway. The first wave, “Optimization,” which many firms are experiencing now, focuses on using AI to enhance existing workflows, making tasks faster and more efficient. The second wave, “Re-engineering,” involves fundamentally rethinking processes, staffing models (including the traditional pyramid structure), pricing strategies, and the very nature of legal work to leverage AI’s capabilities more deeply. Looking further ahead, the third wave anticipates the emergence of entirely “New Business Models,” where law firms might offer tech-based services, explore adjacent business lines, embrace true outcome-based pricing, and potentially even reshape the legal value chain.

The discussion delves into the significant implications these waves have for law firm talent and structure. Raghu predicts a shift in the traditional law firm pyramid, potentially leading to leaner associate ranks but a greater need for experienced partners and, crucially, integrated tech talent. This necessitates not only attracting technologists but also potentially rethinking firm equity structures to retain them. Furthermore, the skill set required for the “lawyer of the future” is evolving; proficiency in delegation to AI tools, broader unstructured problem-solving, and embracing technological integration will become paramount, demanding changes in legal education and professional development.

Thomson Reuters is actively navigating and shaping this transformation, particularly through its AI platform, CoCounsel. Raghu highlights the rapid evolution of CoCounsel, emphasizing the continuous development of new “skills”—capabilities ranging from summarization and research to drafting and complex analysis like the innovative “Claims Explorer.” He explains TR’s strategy involves integrating proprietary data (like Westlaw), client-provided documents, and public information, leveraging advancements in Large Language Models (LLMs) from various providers to deliver comprehensive and powerful AI assistance. Prioritizing new skill development involves balancing significant client value with technical feasibility, constantly informed by close collaboration with innovation-focused customers.

Beyond law firms, the conversation explores the crucial role and adoption of AI within the court system. Raghu notes a surprising enthusiasm among courts, driven by the urgent need to address growing case backlogs and enhance access to justice within tight budgets. He points to Thomson Reuters’ significant partnerships, including a major agreement to deploy AI tools across the US federal courts and ongoing collaboration with the National Center for State Courts (NCSC), which is fostering education and policy discussions among judges and court staff nationwide. Complementing product innovation, TR’s expanded “Customer Success” initiative underscores the importance of user adoption, providing dedicated resources and best practices to help lawyers and legal professionals effectively integrate AI tools into their daily workflows, ensuring technology translates into tangible value.

Concluding with a look ahead, Raghu anticipates that smaller and mid-sized law firms may initially leverage AI more aggressively as a competitive equalizer, pushing larger firms to make bolder, more strategic moves beyond simple optimization. He stresses that the ultimate differentiator for success in the AI era will likely be less about the technology itself and more about effective change management—strategic clarity, operational implementation, and fostering a culture that embraces new ways of working. The rapid pace of AI adoption already witnessed in the legal sector signals that this transformation is not a distant prospect but a present reality reshaping the industry at an unprecedented speed.

Read the Whitepaper: “2025 Generative AI in Professional Services Report“

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[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]

Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Charting the Three Waves of Legal AI Transformation with Thomson Reuters’ Raghu Ramanathan

In this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert wrap up their series of interviews from the LegalWeek 2024 conference in New York with a conversation with ⁠Kelly Griswold⁠, CEO of ⁠Onna⁠. Kelly shares her objectives for attending the conference, which include interacting with customers and partners, staying on top of industry trends and innovations, and bringing her remote team together to build community.

Kelly provides an overview of Onna, explaining that the company primarily serves enterprise and corporate clients by managing their unstructured data with a focus on internal collaboration apps. Onna collects and integrates with various data sources to establish live connectivity and data transformation, making the data ready for searching and discovery to power downstream workflows such as litigation requests, early case assessment, and investigations. Kelly emphasizes the importance of data management as a necessary enabler for future innovations in the legal tech space.

The conversation touches on the challenges of managing data in the enterprise and how Onna helps clients improve their processes. Kelly explains that Onna’s approach involves helping enterprises build a data foundation that is accessible when needed, allowing them to skip several steps in the traditional linear workflow. This value proposition is particularly appealing to enterprises looking to avoid downstream costs by having better visibility and control over their data.

Kelly also discusses the impact of generative AI on the legal industry, noting that while there is a lot of buzz around the technology, companies are realizing the importance of getting their data in order before diving into experimentation and implementation. She believes that the awareness brought by the hype around generative AI is driving companies to make fundamental investments in data management.

Looking to the future, Kelly shares her crystal ball prediction for the next 5-10 years, envisioning a world where natural language communication and automation will transform the way legal workflows are handled. She imagines a scenario where drafting a contract could be done through verbal communication and a system that asks questions and generates the agreement, reducing the need for manual, hands-on work.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ 

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Kelly Griswold of Onna on the Fundamental Investments Needed in Data Management

Adam Curphey’s new book, The Legal Team of the Future: Law+ Skills guides the reader through the need for less silos in legal practice and much more reliance upon teams and collaborative efforts. The idea of a “Law+” model for the profession brings in the essential processes of adding people, business, change, and technology to the law and creating legal teams to solve legal problems.
Curphey’s experiences at law firms like White & Case LLP, Reed Smith LLP, and Mayer Brown LLP helped provide insights into what worked and didn’t work in legal innovation. His membership on the O-Shaped Lawyer Steering Board also provided the human-centric skills needed for the integration of teams into an industry filled with accomplished individuals used to going it alone. This expansion of the T-Shaped and the Delta Model Lawyers brings in more of that human interaction that is needed in today’s complex legal environment.
The Legal Team of the Future: Law+ Skills also lays out multiple case studies and examples of collaboration, teamwork, and professional progression. We talk about some of the case studies along with Adam Curphey’s view into his crystal ball on what is on the horizon for the legal industry in terms of legal innovation.

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Links to Order The Legal Team of the Future: Law+ Skills
LVNx Crystal Ball Answer
This week, Purvi Sanghvi  from Paul Hastings, and a current Legal Value Network Executive Board Member, explains how the legal industry may approach a potential economic downturn in 2023, and how that must be different from the 2008 or the 2020 approaches on previous challenges to the profession.
Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm or @glambert
Voicemail: 713-487-7821 (note the NEW NUMBER!)
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript

Continue Reading Preparing for the Legal Team of the Future – Adam Curphey (TGIR Ep. 176)

Five years ago, Dr. Heidi Gardner, Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School and co-founder, Gardner & Co, wrote the book, “Smart Collaboration” where she laid out the “why” behind smart collaboration efforts. In her upcoming sequel, “Smarter Collaboration: A New Approach to Breaking Down Barriers and Transforming Work,” Dr. Gardner explains the “who” and the “how” behind collaboration. The issues that law firms face today are incredibly complex and multifaceted. And in an industry famous for “going it alone,” that approach exposes firms to much greater risk than those who find ways of implementing “smarter collaboration” techniques. 
Smarter Collaboration helps increase revenues, profits, and efficiencies while reducing risks and improving client relationships and positive outcomes. While the idea of collaboration may sound like a “soft topic” for law firm leaders, Dr. Gardner points out that there is empirical data behind this and if firms are not engaging in smarter collaboration when doing the “real work” then they are either doing something that is pretty low value, or that falls into the realm of commodity work.  
In addition to data driven analysis, Smarter Collaboration also includes a number of examples of how companies and law firms thrive through the use of Smarter Collaboration. Plus, there is a test on determining behavioral tendencies when it comes to collaboration. This psychometric tool helps identify seven different dimensions which can lead to great collaboration within the organization, or may be barriers to collaboration. And, as strange as it may sound to those of us in the legal industry, law firms are not unique when it comes to collaborative behaviors. In fact, Dr. Gardner says law firms are more different from each other than they are from other professional services industries or large corporations.
Listen in for more details on the upcoming book, Smarter Collaboration.

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AALL Crystal Ball Question
This week we have John Beatty from the University of Buffalo Law School answer our crystal ball question where he points out that the pipeline of traditional law librarians for law schools may be running dry.
Links Mentioned:
Contact Us:
Twitter: @gebauerm or @glambert
Voicemail: 713-487-7270
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript

Continue Reading Increased Revenue, Profits, and Efficiencies through “Smarter Collaboration” – Dr. Heidi Gardner (TGIR Ep. 169)

The past ten years have been what University of Tennessee Law Professor Ben Barton calls “the lost decade” for law schools. In his new book, Fixing Law Schools: From Collapse to the Trump Bump and Beyond, Professor Barton walks us through the issues he sees with the current structure of legal education in the United States, and ways to actually fix it. The book focuses on three areas that need correction:
  1. The cost of legal education is simply too high, and cannot be maintained.
  2. Technology has to be leveraged within the educational curriculum to help future practicing attorneys to do more work, charge less, and make more money in the end.
  3. Regulations have to be focused on the outputs of legal education, and be given teeth so that students are more likely to succeed.
While the book title is about the lost decade of the 2010s, the root of the problem goes back well over a hundred years. Professor Barton talks with us about where we’ve been, where we are, and where we need to go so that we really are Fixing Law Schools.

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Information Inspirations

We keep it short and sweet this week (mostly because neither of us has finished our holiday shopping.)
Wireframes are becoming less relevant — and that’s a good thing – In his Medium article, Sean Dexter argues that using wireframes is basically old school now, especially given the rise of Agile product development, and Lean UX processes. Today’s visualizations require more on-the-fly modifications which standard wireframes just don’t allow. Newer products like Think Sketch, Adobe XD, or Figma are the modern tools you might want to check out.

Continue Reading The Geek in Review Ep. 62 – Professor Ben Barton on Fixing Law Schools

On this episode of The Geek in Review Podcast, we have a wonderful conversation with Steve Embry of the TechLaw Crossroads blog. Embry walked away from his AmLaw 200 partnership almost a year ago to follow his passion to become a full time legal blogger. He discusses how there is an art to storytelling, and as a lawyer, there are different ways to present those stories. Storytelling is a skill which needs to be honed, whether that is through legal blogging, or through leveraging technology to present your story in a courtroom environment. Embry’s passion in this new phase of his life is palatable throughout this interview and even inspires those of us who have been blogging for years to remember why it is we do it.

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Information Inspirations:

Ernst and Young is poised to swoop in and acquire Thomson Reuters’ managed legal services company, Pangea3. Marlene wonders what this means for the future of both the Big 4 entering the legal market, and what the future objectives of Thomson Reuters in the legal industry.
Continue Reading Stephen Embry – The Passion Behind Legal Blogging

“All Problems Are Communications Problems.”

This is Greg’s go to phrase when it comes to working with and leading others. Marlene actually beats Greg to the punch this week when they talk with this week’s guest, Heather Ritchie. Heather is the Chief Knowledge and Business Development Officer at Hicks Morley Hamilton Stewart Storie LLP in Toronto, and as her title suggests, she wears multiple leadership hats at her firm. In her recent ILTA KM article, “12 Ways Marketing & Business Development Can Leverage Library & Knowledge Management Teams,” Ritchie walks us through the value of collaborating between the Marketing/Business Development, Knowledge Management, and Library operations of a law firm. Knowing who brings what talent to the table is key to creating stable and successful environment which results in wins for the law firm. 

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How Is Your Business Changing the Legal Industry?

In part two of our three part series, we hear from four more providers of legal industry products on how they are changing the industry. This week we hear from:

Information Inspirations:
Continue Reading Episode 27: Heather Ritchie on Marketing, BD, KM, and Library Collaboration

There are two standard answers to questions asked in a law firm setting.

  1. Well… it depends.
  2. You have to understand, we’re unique.

Both of them drive us nuts, but we get used to them and adjust or responses over time to limit the eye-roll and shaking of the head to a minimum.

When it comes…