A few weeks back, we talked with Norton Rose Fulbright’s Zack Barnes on how law firms can invest in their communities through local innovation hubs like Houston, Texas’ Ion District. We wanted to dive deeper into that law firm/local innovation idea, so Zack is back with us and introduced us to Joey Sanchez, Senior Director of Ecosystems at The Ion Houston. With his weekly “Cup of Joey” innovation gatherings, Sanchez says his responsibility is to “engineer serendipity” in the innovation community.

The Ion Houston is a lesson in “fail fast.” The original idea revolved around the bid to lure Amazon’s second headquarters. And despite being the fourth largest city in the United States, Houston didn’t even make the top 20 of Amazon’s list. What that told the innovators in Houston, along with the biggest backer of the project, Rice University, was that Houston needed to reevaluate itself and make a concerted effort to organize its innovative community.

The Ion is not just a beautiful reimagination of a 1930’s era Sears building. It is a 12 block district in the center of Houston that is looking to reimagine a city that has long been viewed as having a cowboy culture rooted in the fossil fuel industries. While the rest of the world may think of Austin as the hot area for innovation, Sanchez reminds us that Houston has the biggest potential for growth with its variety of industries like the Medical Center, NASA, the Port of Houston, the influx of alternative energy companies, and its large, diverse population.

The legal industry is also taking note of what is happening in the Ion District with firms like Baker Botts, Norton Rose, Hunton Andrews Kurth, and other law firms making a presence for themselves among the startups. Entrepreneurs are looking for protections for their intellectual property, reducing risks associated with being a new company, and for guidance through the legal and regulatory landscape. Having innovation districts in large cities like Houston are a prime spot for law firms to position themselves to help innovators within their local communities.

Links Mentioned:

The Ion Houston
The Ion District
Cup of Joey
Blue Tile Project
Texas Startup Manifesto

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Twitter: @gebauerm or @glambert
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Music: Jerry David DeCicca


Marlene Gebauer 0:06
Welcome to The Geek in Review, a podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene Gebauer.

Greg Lambert 0:12
And I’m Greg Lambert. And we are on location this week at The Ion. So exciting. And we actually have Zack Barnes back with us. And we’re actually not drinking this time. But it’s gluttons for punishment. But when you’re on before, Zack, we were talking about maybe talking with Joey Sanchez and doing it on site here at The Ion and unlike most of the times when we say we need to follow up on something we actually did this time around. So we brought in Joey Sanchez, we did it.

Zack Barnes 0:43
Yeah. And then we ambushed him to what’s the best part? I can tell him what we’re doing today. So that’s the best part. So this is live unscripted, all the best parts?

Greg Lambert 0:53
Yeah, this we do not have a script. So it may show your scriptless. So Joey, I’ll let you introduce yourself what you do here at The Ion and kind of what brought you into this startup industry?

Joey Sanchez 1:06
Yeah, absolutely. So born and raised in Sugarland, Texas, grew up, I love the city. I love the region, went to school in Jacksonville, Florida, came back to Houston as fast as I could. And it been here ever since live downtown Houston. It’s really been a journey started in oil and gas, like many people do in Houston, but wanted to be a part of the city’s future, which got me into the greater Houston partnership about seven, eight years ago, and just took me on a journey of finding people who care about the future of Houston. And now I’m here at The Ion as of nine months ago. And it’s a exciting place to be for sure.

Marlene Gebauer 1:45
So tell us a little bit about The Ion the history of the building. And then the purpose.

Joey Sanchez 1:50
Yeah, absolutely. So this is the original Sears building of Houston. It was a showcase of a very great space to be back in 1934 is when this building was built first escalator in Houston, it was air conditioned through history of innovation. Oh, yeah. And the beauty of it is Sears was an innovative company. Lea, they would sell you a house or underwear on a to your house via

Greg Lambert 2:20
Christmas photos done. Yeah, everything.

Joey Sanchez 2:23
So that catalog was innovative of its time. And they sunsetted in 1997. In 1998, a small company was created called Amazon. And if only Sears would have put that catalog on the internet, they would have crushed amazon before it even gotten started. And so that Genesis of disruption of the small startup, who has now become the world’s largest company, is why I want to be here at The Ion that’s the idea of The Ion is to help create the next big thing and have it come from Houston. So the series building to the district is also the next element that most people don’t know is The Ion is actually a 12 city block district that is just getting started. And the next 10 years will see another six buildings built creating an innovation district to rival the world. And this building is just the beginning. So excited for you all to be here.

Greg Lambert 3:23
And we talked a little bit earlier about it. And I think we mentioned Zach was this kind of sprung out of all of the work that was done to lure Amazon and I think 2017 Yeah. And so it’s nice that cities don’t just put that effort out there for one thing, and then you know, you don’t get it. It goes two ways. Yeah,

Joey Sanchez 3:45
there’s three things that happen in 2017 that were monumental Astros won the World Series. That was big hurricane Harvey hit. And the proposal was actually submitted to Amazon the week after Hurricane Harvey hit to Amazon. And they left us up the top 20 list. Yeah, I noticed that. Yeah, yeah. Only fourth largest city in the greatest country in the world. And not good enough for for Amazon. So it was a wake up call for the city. And our lead investor or the steward of this, the land that were on Rice University said Alright, well, okay, Amazon may not want it. But let’s do something great for the region, let’s do something great for the city. And so they put this Ion district plan in place, and it broke ground in 2019 and opened August 2021.

Greg Lambert 4:38
So what’s kind of the clientele of The Ion? Sure,

Joey Sanchez 4:43
yeah, it’s a it’s a whole group of different communities. So we have our startup and investor community. We have our academic network community. We have our corporate innovator community, and then the neighborhoods at large, you know, we want to be partners with our with our neighbor We are in the middle of four of the best neighborhoods in Houston, you have third ward to our east Midtown to our north, Montrose to our west, and the museum district to our south. And so being an anchor, in the middle of all four of those neighborhoods, to help progress Houston, to innovate in Houston is really the exciting part of this building.

Marlene Gebauer 5:21
So how do you bring those communities together? Because they’re all pretty diverse communities?

Joey Sanchez 5:25
Absolutely. Well, I think it’s rooted in opportunity. You know, everybody wants the opportunity to make their lives better, to make their their neighborhood better, their city better. And so that’s what we want for this district is, you know, if you want to change the world, come to The Ion district, this is really the spot for you to meet and find out the next big thing.

Marlene Gebauer 5:49
What I thought was really cool about The Ion when I came to visit and in talking to Zach and and to you is that it’s not just okay, this is a technology innovation hub. It’s all innovation, like you’re covering everything. So can you tell us a little bit about some of the projects that you’re doing and sort of how you’re bringing different industries organizations together for different innovation,

Joey Sanchez 6:13
it is about innovation and innovation is a buzzword, right. But when it comes down to it, yeah. But, you know, really, it’s about doing something differently than always before. And Houston wasn’t really known for that we, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And now we have a whole space dedicated to finding out new ways to break things to fix them. And that’s our Ion prototyping lab, in the back corner to 10,000 square foot space, where it’s essentially a garage on steroids for any maker to 3d print. There’s metal forging, woodworking, laser cutting everything you possibly could imagine, in order to create a prototype, because in Houston, we build shit. It’s not just software, we have some of the biggest manufacturing companies in the world, in our backyard. So giving startups that same kind of edge. And entrepreneurs, the ability to build is really what makes Houston special. So we have that on our main lobby. And really just bringing people together, we’re convener, we bring all these different communities and ecosystems together in order to share the knowledge share opportunity, bridge connections. And it’s working. We’ve been open since August of 2021 pandemic really hurt in regards to bringing people together. So may 9, through the 13th was our official grand opening called activation festival. So we’ve officially only been open for about three months now.

Greg Lambert 7:53
I know. Zack won’t like this. But I know there’s there’s a law firms name on in the lobby that Ryan rhymes with maker sloth. Dodge. But, Zack, I know with you and with Alec studios that you’ve started up there at Norton rose Fulbright, that you’ve been interested in. You’re the one that kind of got us interested in here. What is it about something like this where Houston is creating this innovation district? I know my attorneys eyes light up because they see business. But what’s really kind of the end for law firms or for the legal industry in these innovation districts?

Zack Barnes 8:35
Sure. So like we were joking about, you know, just talking about before we came in here, Joe is oh, you really did get a bit out. And like, while I was going to just took me a little bit longer, because there’s a longer lead time. And by me, I really like something I was pushing on. But there’s definitely been help from some of the things we’ve just done it at the firm. But to do that, you have to surround yourself with the same mentality. And you have to understand and be around the people that are going through the same fights. And so from my perspective, as the guy that was, came in and telling people well, before I actually got it totally underway in the moment, like I’m gonna start a company out of a law firm. You know, I made sure I surrounded myself with those people because there’s an energy in that. And so it drives strictly from Joey and what he’s done. But I’d seen what had gone on at Rice from previous roles and had worked with their energy tech accelerator, their AALL spark data to knowledge is a program we work with now until we’re staying what rice had bought into post Amazon was a big thing. And so when there was there’s the coffee meetup cup of Joey, downtown was really easy for me to get to. Now obviously, it’s here, it’s less frequent, but I have a team I still send a team here. And so one of the energy is the important part to absolutely every startup needs legal and business advice and they need help to get there. And every law firm Yeah, they’re isolated like oh, they’re gonna be the next Amazon Um, but the reality is that that lawyers and legal practice has to understand that the purpose of that is to just de risk business. And so helping those companies is fun for me fun to see them get going. Having done it myself a few times, I know that the stress, so thrilled to be part of that community. That’s the important part, right?

Joey Sanchez 10:18
Yeah, the ecosystem. And so that’s actually my title here is Senior Director of ecosystems at The Ion. And that’s a fun way of saying, community development, and bringing people together to go through shared experiences, and shared failures and shared success. Because in Houston, we are such a large geographic area, that the likelihood that we would all run into each other out on the streets. That’s called a car accident on 59. We don’t have that public realm of, you know, a community center for innovation. And that’s essentially what this building is. It’s an open building, you don’t need a key fob to get in. This is not a corporate tower. This is a community of people, startups, investors, corporations. And so you may see sponsors on the wall, but you won’t see a rice owl anywhere, there is no logo for Rice University on this Ion building or The Ion district on purpose. Because it is meant for all academic institutions, it’s meant for all corporations to be a part of it. And that’s where I get most excited is. My passion for why I do this is because my brother and my best friend both moved from Houston to Seattle, and Boston for tech. And I think that’s bullshit. I want them I want people to realize that Houston can be a space for innovation, for tech. And by building this community, this cup of Joey community, you know, it’s really become a family. And we’re seeing it grow. And people are more willing to take the risk of entrepreneurship, because they see other like minded people doing the exact same thing. So that’s where we’re excited to see this ecosystem, this community grow from all different industries, all different walks of life.

Marlene Gebauer 12:11
So Zack mentioned and you mentioned the cup of Joey community? Can you tell us a little bit about cup of jelly and how that got started? And what it’s all about? Yeah,

Joey Sanchez 12:21
so cup of Joey was a is a coffee networking, meetup every Friday 8:30am to 10:30am for innovative ideas. And it all started with an event that we created two years ago called Houston tech rodeo, Houston tech rodeo was a, an idea on the back of a napkin, January 2 2020. And we were able to execute it by March 1 of 2020. And so if

Greg Lambert 12:50
and then two weeks later, and then

Joey Sanchez 12:54
the world was shutting down, South by Southwest canceled, the NBA season was canceled. And we’re sitting there with 2000 people in 35 different events in Houston, Texas, talking about the tech ecosystem. Wow. And so that propelled our pandemic, with connection, because we had a group of people who cared about the viability of Houston as a tech hub. And so for the next two years, we were able to host plenty of online meetings and connections and create good content. And as soon as the mask ban was lifted, the Federal mask ban, we started kappa Joey. And that first week, there were seven people there. And through unreasonable repetition we created every Friday, and now it’s north of 150 people every Friday, organically coming to The Ion to meet other people who give a shit. Yeah, yeah. When we were

Marlene Gebauer 13:51
there, there was a very big crowd.

Greg Lambert 13:54
Yeah, there was a couple of things going on, on that day. Now, one of the things because I know sometimes a person may have, you know, a germ of an idea, something that they think

Joey Sanchez 14:06
Did you just say, germ?

Greg Lambert 14:07
Germ, not a virus. But you know, they’ve got something in the back of their head, or they’ve got something that they’ve been working on that they know, is just the basis for a startup, or an idea that it’s going to change the way people do a certain thing. And when they come to a cup of Joey, not knowing anybody that’s going to be in that room, but having that idea. What do you say? Or how do you encourage them to get in and meet with the community?

Joey Sanchez 14:38
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you have that idea, the worst thing you can do is hold on to it and not tell anybody, because you may think someone’s going to steal it. But really, it’s who can execute like that idea to the field.

Greg Lambert 14:51
Is this everyday with lawyers? Exactly.

Zack Barnes 14:53
I mean, he’s saying the same thing I do all the time. Right.

Joey Sanchez 14:57
You get the you You have to get feedback on the idea. But then you also get advice and you get a roadmap of what to do with it. I remember having an idea, you know, back in the day and I didn’t know how or who to talk to in the legal world, so I ended up not not copywriting, the or trademarking, you know, the certain phrase and topic and guess what about that business idea didn’t go anywhere. So having that network of people who are willing to help and surround you with mentorship or guidance is huge. So, when it comes to kappa, Joey, when you come to The Ion, you’re encouraged to say hello to others, and introduce yourself so that you can, you know, create a relationship so that you can help each other out. The legal world is very confidential. But when you’re just getting started, you have to see if the idea is market ready, or can be validated, need to get feedback. But where do you go? Like you can’t, you can go to a chat room, but you’re talking about not knowing the person across from you. So that’s what cup of Joey provides to you. That’s what The Ion provides to you is, it gives you a authentic community to validate your idea, and then hopefully scale your idea into a viable business and into a successful startup.

Marlene Gebauer 16:22
Do you have or can you share any success examples in that regard of folks that did connect? And were able to bring something to fruition?

Joey Sanchez 16:32
Absolutely. Like that.

Marlene Gebauer 16:33
It’s I’m so glad you asked. Yeah.

Joey Sanchez 16:38
It’s crazy, because, you know, I can’t guarantee it. But it happens all the time. We the very first week of coverage, Joey, I had a gentleman, he had a technology called fit, lift. And it’s a wristwatch that can monitor weightlifting in real time. So track your reps, track the weight, and track the speed and see if you’re doing your lifts correctly. So this guy showed up to cover Joey five days in a row or five weeks in a row. And on that fifth week, we were having a coffee shop in downtown, some Houston Astros fans walked in. I thought they were there for a cup of Joey. And so I introduced myself I drum over and I said, Hey, you know, welcome in. This is, you know, coffee meet up for innovative ideas. And they’re like, oh, so like, the r&d department for the Houston Astros would be interested. And I go, absolutely, that’s exactly who it should be. Like, well, we just walked in. And at the exact same moment, Eric from fit, lift walks up. And he gets to demonstrate his weightlifting wristwatch to the Houston Astros r&d department talks about serendipity. Yeah. And that is what my role now is, is to facilitate or engineer serendipity. And so in the back of my mind, I have a good running list of most of the people who come to the door, and what their needs are. And then I’m trying to pair them up with people in the room. So you know how you do a warm introduction email, to introduce people. And like you did for me today. Sort of yep, that’s what I do at kappa Joey, but in person. And so imagine getting introduced to the next podcast guest right there. And then as I tell them about your podcast, and why the person should be on it. So that’s what cup of joe he does. But really, The Ion has given me that ability to do this 24/7 With this building with a coffee shop here. And, man, it’s exciting, because we’re starting to see the acceleration of innovation by connecting these communities all around.

Greg Lambert 18:44
And Zack, what? what initially drew you over here,

Zack Barnes 18:49
Joey! I met Joey because he’s part of the blue tile project, which goes back and rehabilitates the neighborhoods that used to have the addresses in the blue and white tiles. And since I live in a blue tile neighborhood, reached out and somehow got a hold of Joe at one point he put him in touch with what’s his name?

Joey Sanchez 19:07
Eric Mayer, yeah. Which this is crazy that you’re saying that because that idea that I didn’t predict was the blue tile street signs that I if I would have had a community I would have known to, like get the right legal advice to

Greg Lambert 19:21
so Marlene is new to Houston

Marlene Gebauer 19:22
and looking at all you like what

Greg Lambert 19:26
the listeners are wondering what the blue tile. They used to be in some of the the older established neighborhoods on the street curb there would be an address that was in blue and white tile. Yeah, yeah. So it’s absolutely it’s beautiful. It was it was well known here in Houston to do it. So

Joey Sanchez 19:47
blue tile project.com

Zack Barnes 19:50
That’s what we do here. We named drop things if you want to check it

Joey Sanchez 19:53
out. Definitely. But it’s it’s a civic image of the city. That people have literally been underneath their feet for 100 years, but not paid attention to. And so that’s, you know, that was my first foray into, you know, community development in Houston. And I was able to gain a large community of, you know, historic preservationist who cared about the street signs. We have a beer at eighth wonder that has the logo on it. There’s one at greater heights, you know, the blue tile IPA? And speaking of I know it well, yeah. But that, if I were to trademark blue tile project, you know, I would be getting royalties out of this, but I didn’t have that community to know a lawyer. Because I didn’t know that at the time. And, you know, I remember talking to a lawyer out of DC, because there was a family friend of a friend. Now, if I would have had,

Greg Lambert 20:47
that’s how all lawyers are found, which is got a cousin who knows somebody.

Joey Sanchez 20:52
And now a cup of Joey, if someone’s starting a business, I go well, Zak’s here. My friends at Baker bots, my friends, you know, at Hunton Andrews Kurth, they show up. And so now you’re building relationships and personalized connections, so that you can trust people with your most prized ideas, which could be your next big startup?

Greg Lambert 21:12
Do you have peers in other cities that are doing something similar that you reach out to and communicate with?

Joey Sanchez 21:20
Great question, you know, there’s one guy in Austin, Texas, who’s from Houston, but he moved to Austin 12 years ago, his name is Mark, Nathan. Loves Houston is a big Houston guy. But he’s been the super connector of Austin almost knows every single, like, person slash investor slash startup in the Austin community. And now look at where Austin is, right? They’re doing it, they’re killing it. But they’re only 2 million people over there. We have 7.9 million. Yeah, we have more Hispanic population than they do population. And so I think the scale of Houston is going to be our biggest opportunity, it’s our biggest challenge. But again, opportunity is to really get this message of innovation out.

Zack Barnes 22:04
And because of where Houston is located, there’s so many more industries that have bases here, that make it important. So we were just talking, you know, we have the Med Center, fantastic world class, everyone just counted as a mega hospital. But the amount of r&d that’s done, they’re staggering. There’s multiple universities that have offices there for the same reason. So that’s just medical, then you get into energy. And that’s what Houston’s really known for you’ve got everyone has their home base here. So moved slightly out. So we’re moving back into the city, it doesn’t really matter. But in the volume of r&d done, that’s innovation, again, there’s multiple wind companies that have moved, you know, people here, I can testify that SpaceX and Blue Origin are pilfering people out of this ecosystem, because they’re such great like minds that like they don’t come to look for the sort of not the people that don’t get things done. So you want to come get them. And then with the port, the amount of containers every day they come off that I’ve talked about before, like there’s an r&d center down there. Yeah, sort of blows my mind, like how to get things off the ship faster than what and

Joey Sanchez 23:11
the challenge is our energy corridor to our medical centers 30 miles away, and then our Aerospace Center is 30 miles away from that than our port is 30 miles away from that. This is a big, big issue.

Marlene Gebauer 23:27
And there’s no transportation. There’s no public transportation, no public transportation,

Greg Lambert 23:31
transportation. Yeah, the rail system is pretty good. But

Zack Barnes 23:35
yeah, but it doesn’t reach me doesn’t leave South. Right. Yeah. And, you know, I hear speaking of legal things to Texas courts, Cluedo, a little bit of pathway for for the speech, tech Central, yeah, between Dallas and Houston, which means they’re going if that ruling stands in precedent, blah, blah, not a lawyer play one on TV. Oh, if that stands for Galveston, and then to Austin to us, like I would perceive it. There’s a real economic viability to that. So

Joey Sanchez 24:03
there’s there’s something to this. And so if you haven’t read the Texas manifesto, put up by Capital Factory in Austin. Definitely check it out. Because it’s pretty much saying that Texas will become the greatest innovation state in the world. If Dallas Houston Austin, San Antonio, come together to create a Texas triangle, kind of like Southwest did on the back of a napkin back in the 1970s. We will create this monstrosity of a of a innovation state and that railway would help because Austin doesn’t have what Houston has. Houston doesn’t have, you know, a Dallas and San Antonio at the same. So by 2036, which is Texas, his 200th birthday. If we can come together as a state with a high speed rail. If we can work together as a state with this cowboy state that we’ve built, then I think we’re going to

Greg Lambert 24:56
we can get out of our own way. Exactly, exactly.

Joey Sanchez 24:58
So We are in Houston, we want to, you know, take that cowboy moniker and change it into the space cowboy. Because you are right. You know, it’s taken. It’s taken

Zack Barnes 25:11
the other beer, but whatever. And a baseball, Space Cowboys Yeah, that’s the album. Right. So that’s exactly it. But to your point about the triangle, like, I think the thing that I’ve seen is some from the outside attending couple of Joey and tech, rodeo and South by is that you start to see and hear about entrepreneurs and innovators on the circuit or the triangle, you ride that triangle now. So you go Dallas, to Austin, San Antonio, to Houston back to DFW. And so that’s just a normal path. Now. That’s, I think, the last few years, that’s two or

Joey Sanchez 25:44
three, yeah, for sure. And it will be more powerful than the Northeast Corridor. I have a like strong premonition that with World Cup in 2026, a big way and then 2036 That all four of these cities are going to be so big and so influential that I think everyone’s gonna have to listen. But it’s exciting times. And I love that The Ion gets to be at the center of the Houston conversation, because with the such a large spread out city, we have to have a central hub. And that’s what this district is, is that main central hub to the spokes and the wheel.

Marlene Gebauer 26:24
I think we covered the crystal ball tech question in terms in terms of Texas innovation, but we’ll circle back to The Ion. So Joey, we ask all of our guests a crystal ball question like What do you see for the future in the next three to five years. So for The Ion in particular, what do you see for the next three to five years?

Joey Sanchez 26:42
That’s awesome. It’s it’s really easy, because it’s already planned out. Ion district.com Literally lays out our next three to five years here. Right now we have this building, which is the old Sears building 266,000 square foot facility, five floors, Microsoft is on the top floor. Chevron Technology Ventures is on the third floor. We have leased up space already. We have 95% of full co working space on the second floor with about 150 Different companies. And that’s just our building. Next door we have Greentown Labs, which is the largest clean tech accelerator in the country. They just started in Boston, Massachusetts, and they chose Houston to be their second headquarters to lead the energy transition that we are all seeing here in Houston. And right now, parking is our biggest challenge. So we have a 10 storey 1500 Space garage going up in the next 10 months. The future’s bright, as soon as that parking garage goes up, three more buildings will be added and they are already signed and ready to break ground. We just need the parking to come on board. This building. In particular, we have a coffee shop come and bond open every day. We are about to get a 70 Tap Beer Bar opening up in August, and a cocktail lounge called limb bar opening September. So we will have a viable, walkable, connected district in the next three to five years. That will be the envy of the world. Honestly, I believe I think Austin is going to get crowded if it’s not already crowded. And people are going to look for space. And space is going to be here because we are closer to the corporate customers. We are closer to the scalable industries that are changing the world with energy, medical and aerospace. And so I’m excited to be a part of this big in a big, big way. And I’m looking forward to in the next four years. World Cup will be on the world’s stage. And I think Ion is gonna be front and center to show Houston’s why. Houston. Houston is an innovative city.

Greg Lambert 28:57
I know we were joking about parking because Houston is such a car heavy area but I did want to mention that you’re right on one of the main light rail lines, you probably hear it go by here every once awhile and the big bus station as well. So it’s not you know, people are into public transportation. This is a great area for that because there because you’re right literally right across the street from the bus and rail station.

Joey Sanchez 29:25
And if you saw the Superbowl in 2004 helped us create the north south metro rail Superbowl in 2017 helped us create the East West Metro Rail World Cup, it’s in four years and they’re talking about a line down Richmond to go to the Galleria which would connect us to the bus rapid transit there and then line to Hobby airport into intercontinental. So these these are already mapped out and ready to go. So we could see our public transportation really expand in the next you know four years all Just in time for autonomous vehicles.

Greg Lambert 30:05
As long as gas stays above $4 a gallon,

Joey Sanchez 30:08
fine. But it’s exciting times and you said crystal ball. I don’t really have to imagine much because it’s already moving. It’s already going. And it’s already planned. So I think this is more so on that investment side. If you want to invest in a city that’s got a huge upside. I think Houston is the place. I’m a little biased, but I love it. We’re all a little

Greg Lambert 30:34
biased in this room, I think. Well, Joey Sanchez. Zack Barnes is well thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us.

Marlene Gebauer 30:42
Yeah, thank you both. All right. And of course, thanks to all of you for taking the time to listen to The Geek in Review podcast. If you enjoy the show, share it with a colleague. We’d love to hear from you. So reach out to us on social media. I can be found at @gebauerm on

Greg Lambert 30:56
Twitter, And I can be reached @glambert on Twitter.

Marlene Gebauer 30:59
Or you can leave us a voicemail on The Geek in Review Hotline at 713-487-7270 and as always, the music here is from Jerry David DeCicca Thank you, Jerry.

Greg Lambert 31:10
Thanks, Jerry. That’s our Texas connection.

Unknown Speaker 31:12
Thanks, Jerry.

Greg Lambert 31:14
Thank you. Alright, Marlene, bye. Bye bye hey Stu, back devils back at the devils back