Since Greg Lambert is on vacation, we wanted to share an episode of Future Ready Business podcast, which Greg also produces. Art Cavazos and Courtney White from Jackson Walker, LLP, interview Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, and Travis Wussow, regulatory and governmental affairs lawyer Partner at JW. Neil and Travis had worked together at the Charles Koch Institute and are both heavily involved in advising governmental agencies and policy makers on the topic of AI.

Neil Chilson and Travis Wussow both emphasize the complexity of regulating AI due to its broad applications and the difficulty in defining it. They argue that most AI applications fall into areas that already have existing regulatory frameworks, such as healthcare, intellectual property, and transportation. Chilson suggests that policymakers should focus on identifying specific harms and addressing gaps in current regulations rather than creating entirely new frameworks for AI.

Regarding current AI policy, Wussow notes that litigation is already underway, particularly in areas like copyright infringement. He believes that proactive policymaking will likely wait until these legal disputes are resolved. Chilson highlights that there is significant activity at the federal level, with the White House issuing a comprehensive executive order on AI, and at the state level, with numerous AI-related bills being proposed.

On the topic of AI’s potential impact on elections and misinformation, Chilson expresses less concern about AI-generated content itself and more about the distribution networks that spread misinformation. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining trust in the electoral system and suggests that tracking and analyzing actual instances of AI use in elections is crucial for understanding its real impact.

Looking to the future, both experts stress the importance of the United States maintaining its leadership in AI development. They argue that this leadership is essential for embedding American values into AI systems and preventing other countries, such as China, from dominating the field with potentially restrictive approaches. Chilson also highlights the potential for AI to revolutionize healthcare, emphasizing the need to adapt regulatory frameworks, particularly in areas like FDA approval processes, to allow for the benefits of AI-driven personalized medicine while ensuring safety and efficacy.

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Continue Reading The Current and Future State of AI Policies with Neil Chilson and Travis Wussow

This week, we have a lively discussion with June Liebert and Cornell Winston, President and President-Elect, respectively, for the American Association of Law Libraries (AALL). The conversation centers around the upcoming AALL annual conference, scheduled for July 20-23, 2024, at the Hyatt Regency in Chicago. 

June Liebert, Director of Information Services at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, kicks off the discussion by diving into the conference theme. She emphasizes the importance of librarians taking proactive leadership roles, particularly in the context of the rapidly evolving landscape influenced by Generative AI. June highlights the concept of “innovation intermediaries,” individuals who not only generate innovative ideas but also ensure these ideas are implemented effectively. This theme resonates with the need for transformative thinking, urging librarians to embrace significant changes rather than settling for incremental improvements.

This year’s keynote speaker is Cory Doctorow, a renowned sci-fi author and advocate for digital rights, Doctorow’s presence promises to bring a unique perspective on the intersection of technology and societal impact. June shares her enthusiasm for Doctorow, whose work with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and writings on “enshittification” – the degradation of online platforms over time – provide critical insights into the ethical implications of technological advancements. Doctorow’s focus on the human impact of technology, rather than just the technology itself, offers valuable reflections for the legal information profession.

Cornell Winston, law librarian at the United States Attorney’s Office, provides a comprehensive overview of what attendees can expect from the conference. With over 60 educational programs, including a pre-conference workshop on AI strategy, the event promises rich learning opportunities. Cornell underscores the value of networking and connecting with peers, highlighting the inclusive environment fostered by the Host Program for first-time attendees. His advice to explore sessions outside one’s usual domain and to meet new people each day encapsulates the spirit of professional growth and community building.

As the conversation unfolds, the trio touches on the broader theme of innovation and technology within law libraries. June and Cornell discuss the shift from physical books to digital resources, reflecting on how generative AI and other technologies are reshaping the profession. June mentions the implementation of live closed captioning for sessions, a first for the conference, enhancing accessibility and providing real-time transcripts for attendees.

June shares her experiences as the first Asian American president of the association, highlighting her efforts to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion. Cornell, looking ahead to his presidency, discusses plans to review AALL’s governance structure and explore the future of law libraries in an increasingly digital world. The episode wraps up with a preview of the 2024 conference in Portland, Oregon, promising another enriching experience for the legal information community.

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Transcript

Continue Reading Leading, Innovating, and Transforming: Insights for the 2024 AALL Annual Conference – June Liebert and Cornell Winston

If you’re my age or older, you most likely remember the first rudimentary spreadsheet application you used.  You may not remember the actual moment you discovered the sort functionality, but you probably remember the feeling you got when you hit that button for the first time. In one magical moment, a jumbled list of items – randomly entered in the nonsensical order they popped into your brain – was immediately transformed into a perfectly alphabetized list worthy of your municipal library’s card catalog.  Amazing!  Revolutionary! Life changing?!

Today we live in the world of Generative AI.  It is amazing, revolutionary, and probably life changing. This technology has already changed, and will continue to change, how we use and interact with computers in business, and in our personal lives.  I use it daily.  I use it in solutions for my clients.  It takes tedious tasks of text transformation and turns them into simple push button experiences.  Just like the sort function does.

An 50 year old male professional with curly hair.jpgOf course, GenAI does a lot more than order or sort text.  It translates.  It rewrites.  It summarizes. It clarifies.  It extracts. It interpolates. It expounds upon. It combines THIS and THAT into one thing.  It re-imagines THIS, as if it were actually THAT. It recontextualizes THIS as if THAT didn’t exist. Its capabilities go well beyond simply sorting a list.  In fact, it often gets simple sorting wrong, because it doesn’t use a hard-coded algorithm to produce it’s text transformation. Instead, GenAI uses vast troves of written example language to determine the probability of the next word it should write, and then the next, and the next… until it reaches it’s maximum output or it runs out of space.

The results of this seemingly simple exercise are impressive.  It means that any writer with a rough idea of what they want to write, no longer needs to stare at a blank page (or screen), they simply ask a question or propose a concept and the technology generates a draft.  Any reader who doesn’t want to read a 400 page transcript of a court proceeding, can get a summary that guides them directly to the “important” parts of the text.  And any person who needs to transform any text from one form, or language, or perspective, to another can get a draft version of that transformation very easily and quickly.

A stupid robot sit in front of a computer making m.jpg

However, there is a downside to Generative AI.  It so easily manipulates and transforms text, that it often gives the appearance of being intelligent.  This is an illusion.  We tend to identify people who easily manipulate and transform text as intelligent people, which gives rise to the fallacy that a machine that does the same is an intelligent machine. We talk about GenAI “passing the bar exam”, as if that means it understands the law, and then we further extrapolate that we can use GenAI to replace lawyers.  As tempting as that proposition might be to those of us who are not lawyers but work with them regularly, it’s not going to happen any time soon, if ever.

Continue Reading GenAI & the Magical Sort Button

In this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Greg Lambert and Kate Boyd from Sente Advisors (standing in for Marlene Gebauer) sit down with Giles Thompson, Head of Growth, and Jun Choi, Growth Executive at Avvoka, to discuss the company’s innovative approach to document automation and the impact of generative AI on the legal industry.

Avvoka is a no-code document automation platform that enables legal professionals to streamline the creation and management of complex legal documents and contracts. The company has recently introduced AI-enhanced features such as SmartAutomation (with GenAI) and SmartConsolidation , which aim to simplify the process of building automations.

Giles and Jun highlight the differences in knowledge management practices between the US and UK, with the former being more technology-focused and the latter being more human-centric. Avvoka’s platform caters to both law firms and in-house legal teams, with clients ranging from Warner Brothers Discovery and McDonald’s to booking.com.

The company also hosts a vendor-agnostic community event series called “Logically Drafted,” which bring together legal professionals interested in document automation to share their experiences and insights. These events have gained traction globally, with upcoming sessions planned for Houston (Tuesday 18 June) and Chicago (Friday 21 June), and other cities.

Looking ahead, Avvoka is focusing on integrating generative AI technologies into its platform while ensuring data security and client control. The company is collaborating with clients to provide flexibility in terms of hosting and integrating large language models, allowing them to maintain control over their data and manage risks associated with these emerging technologies.

Giles and Jun emphasize the importance of being realistic about the capabilities and limitations of generative AI in the legal industry. They believe that document automation will continue to play a crucial role, with AI serving as an enhancement rather than a replacement for existing tools and processes. The key challenge for vendors like Avvoka will be to navigate the hype surrounding generative AI while delivering practical, value-driven solutions to their clients.

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Transcript

Continue Reading Avvoka’s Innovative Approach to Document Automation and the Impact of Generative AI – Giles Thompson and Jun Choi

Reflections on the Stanford HAI Report on Legal AI Research Tools

The updated paper from the Stanford HAI team presents rigorous and insightful research into the performance of generative AI tools for legal research. The complexity of legal research is well-acknowledged, and this study looks into the capabilities and limitations of AI-driven legal research tools like Lexis+ AI and Westlaw AI-Assisted Research.

Stanford and Unclean Hands

This is Stanford Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence (HAI) team’s second bite at this apple. The first version of this report was criticized by me and others for using Thomson Reuters’ Practical Law AI tool as a legal research tool instead of using Westlaw Precision AI (which they call Westlaw AI-AR in their report.) In the follow up report, and in the blog post and on LinkedIn posts, authors of the report made it sound like Thomson Reuters had some nefarious reason for this. In reality, TR had not released the AI tool to any academic institutions, not just the Stanford group.

In the original report, this should have been posted up front and center on the paper, instead it was finally mentioned on page 9. It appears to me that Stanford HAI released the initial report in an attempt to pressure TR to give them access, which did work. However, this type of maneuver from Stanford HAI may have repercussions on whether the legal industry gives them a second chance to take this report seriously. We expect a high degree of ethics from prestigious instructions like Stanford, and in my opinion, this team of researchers did not meet those expectations in the initial report.

Challenges in Legal Research

Legal research is inherently challenging due to the intricate and nuanced nature of legal language and the vast array of case law, statutes, and regulations that must be navigated. The Stanford researchers designed their study with prompts that often included false statements or were worded in ways that tested the AI tools’ ability to understand legal complexities. This approach, while insightful, introduces a certain bias aimed at identifying the tools’ vulnerabilities. I would not say that they cherry-picked the results for the paper, but that the questions posed were designed to challenge the systems they were testing. This is not a bad thing, just something to consider when reading the report.

AI Tools: Strengths and Weaknesses

One of the primary advantages and disadvantages of legal research generative AI tools is their attempt to provide direct answers to user prompts. Traditional legal research tools like Westlaw and Lexis previously operated by presenting users with a list of relevant cases, statutes, and regulations based on Boolean or natural language searches. The shift to AI-generated responses aims to streamline this process but comes with its own set of challenges.

For instance, Westlaw’s Precision AI (Westlaw AI-AR) often produces lengthy answers, which can be a double-edged sword. While these detailed responses can be informative, they also increase the risk of including inaccuracies or “hallucinations.” The study highlights that these AI tools sometimes produce errors, raising questions about the effectiveness of their initial vector search compared to traditional Boolean and natural language searches. The researchers gave the results a Correct/Incorrect/Refusal score. To be correct, the AI generated answer had to be 100% correct. Any inaccurate information automatically resulted in an incorrect score. If the results had five points of reasoning, and only one of those was factually incorrect or hallucinated, the entire question was ruled incorrect. Something else to keep in mind when looking at the statistics.

Comparing AI and Traditional Searches

A key point of interest is how AI search results for statutes, regulations, and cases compare with traditional search methods. The study suggests that while the AI tools’ vector search technology is promising in retrieving relevant documents, the accuracy of the AI-generated responses is still a concern. Users must still verify the AI’s answers against the actual documents, much like traditional legal research. As my friend Tony Thai from Hyperdraft would jokingly say, “I mean we could just do the regular research and I don’t know…READ like we are paid to do.”

The Role of Vendors and the Future of Legal AI

Vendors like Westlaw and Lexis need to take this report seriously. The previous version of the study had its limitations, but the updated report addresses many of these deficiencies, providing a more comprehensive evaluation of the AI tools. While vendors may point out that the study is based on earlier versions of their products, the fundamental issues highlighted remain relevant.

The legal community has not abandoned these AI tools despite their flaws, primarily due to the decades of goodwill these vendors have built. The industry understands that this technology is still in its infancy. With the exception of CoCounsel, which was not directly evaluated in this study, these products have not reached their first birthday yet. This is very new technology which vendors and customers are wanting to get released quickly, and fix issues along the way. Vendors have the opportunity to engage in honest conversations with their customers about how they plan to improve these tools and reduce hallucinations. Vendors need to respect the customers and be forthcoming with issues they are working to correct. Creative advertising may create some short-term wins but may damage long-term relationships. Vendors are bending themselves into pretzels to advertise some version of “hallucination-free” on websites and marketing media when everyone knows that hallucinations in Generative AI tools is a feature, not a bug.

RAG as a Stop-Gap Measure

The study underscores that Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG) is a temporary solution. Something I have discussed with the vendors for a while now. For generative AI tools to truly excel, users need more sophisticated ways to manipulate their searches, refine retrieval processes, and interact with the AI. Currently, the system is basic and limited, but there is optimism that it will improve with time and consumer pressure. RAG is one of the first steps toward improving AI generated results for legal research, not the last.

Personal Reflections and Industry Implications

Reflecting on the broader implications, it is clear that the AI tools in their current form are not yet replacements for thorough, human-conducted legal research. The tools offer significant promise but must evolve to become more reliable and versatile. Legal professionals must remain vigilant in verifying AI-generated outputs and continue to advocate for advancements that will make these tools more robust and dependable. We are right in the middle of the Trough of Disillusionment on the Gartner Hype Cycle. This means that customers are expecting solid results, and while there is this unusual honeymoon with the legal industry when it comes to forgiving AI tools for hallucinations, this honeymoon will not last much longer. Lawyers are notorious for trying a product once, and if it works, they stick with it, and if it doesn’t, it may be months or years before they are willing to try it again. We are almost at that point in the industry with Generative AI tools that don’t reach their advertised abilities.

While the Stanford HAI report sheds light on the current state of legal AI research tools, it also provides a roadmap for future improvements. The legal community must work collaboratively with vendors to refine these Generative AI technologies, ensuring they become valuable assets in the practice of law.

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Greg Lambert and Marlene Gebauer, along with special co-host Toby Brown of DV8 Legal Strategies, discuss the subscription-based legal services model with Mathew Kerbis, founder of Subscription Attorney, LLC, and Jack Shelton, co-founder of Aegis Space Law. The guests share their experiences and insights on adopting a subscription-based model as an alternative to the traditional billable hour.

Mathew Kerbis explains that his inspiration for transitioning to a subscription and flat fee model stemmed from the realization that many attorneys, including himself, could not afford their own billable rates. He emphasizes the importance of automating processes and leveraging technology to manage workflow and client needs efficiently, especially when offering lower-priced services.

Jack Shelton, whose firm focuses on the commercial space industry, shares his motivation for adopting a subscription model. He highlights the benefits of predictability and cost transparency for clients, particularly startups and small to medium-sized businesses. Shelton also discusses the development of in-house software to streamline complex analyses and improve accuracy and record-keeping for clients.

The guests explore the challenges and opportunities of scaling and sustaining a subscription-based model. Kerbis notes that the model is highly sustainable due to the predictability of monthly recurring revenue, while Shelton emphasizes the importance of refining processes and forms to ensure efficiency and effectiveness.

Looking to the future, Kerbis predicts that the rapid advancement of AI and the changing nature of legal practice will lead to a significant shift in the industry within the next five years. He suggests that if big law firms do not adapt, there may be a mass exodus of young associates seeking better work-life balance and the opportunity to start their own practices. Shelton, while agreeing with Kerbis to an extent, remains cautious about predicting a flood of lawyers leaving big law due to their risk-averse nature.

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Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Exploring the Subscription-Based Legal Services Model with Mathew Kerbis and Jack Shelton

In this special episode of The Geek in Review, host Greg Lambert sits down with Ed Walters, Chief Strategy Officer at vLex, to discuss two significant announcements: the integration of vLex’s Vincent AI with iManage Work and the automated docket ingestion feature with iManage using vLex’s Docket Alarm.

The integration between Vincent AI and iManage’s Insight Plus collection allows law firms to leverage their internal knowledge assets alongside vLex’s extensive public law database. This combination of the “two halves of the legal brain” enables lawyers to create brilliant first drafts and analyze documents using the power of generative AI. Walters emphasizes the importance of data quality and the role of knowledge management teams in curating the best practice documents for training AI models.

Security is a top priority for both vLex and iManage in this integration. Walters details the various measures taken to ensure data protection, including encryption, dedicated master keys for each firm, and compliance with industry standards such as ISO 27001 and SOC 2. He also clarifies that vLex uses retrieval-augmented generation, securely passing relevant documents to a closed instance of the foundation model without training on the data itself.

The second announcement focuses on the automated docket ingestion feature, which seamlessly saves court filings from Docket Alarm into the correct iManage folders. This practical solution eliminates the manual process of saving documents and ensures that all team members have access to the most up-to-date versions of the filings.

Looking ahead, Walters hints at future integration points between vLex and iManage, emphasizing the potential for generative AI to help law firms differentiate their services and meet client expectations. He sees Vincent AI as a secure bridge between generative AI and a firm’s internal work product, enabling them to leverage their knowledge assets without the need for expensive, in-house foundation models.

 

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https://youtu.be/uDHXq8UT1UU

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 Transcript

Continue Reading vLex Integrates Vincent AI with iManage and Automates Docket Ingestion with Docket Alarm

In this impromptu episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert reconnect after being on the road for a few weeks. They discuss their recent “Love and LegalTech” mini-series, which featured eight couples sharing their experiences working in the legal technology industry. The series provided insights into communication, work-life integration, and the passion for innovation shared by the guests. 

The conversation then shifts to a recent webinar by Toby Brown and Ian Wilson, where they discussed the potential impact of AI tools on law firm hours and profits. While the idea of AI reducing billable hours may seem controversial, the hosts agree that firms must adopt these tools to remain competitive. They also touch on the importance of aligning innovation with practice groups and the need for subject matter experts and people with strong interpersonal skills to drive change management.

Greg demonstrates an example of agentic AI using a tool called Crew AI. He sets up a task to search for information on a company called Take 5 Oil Change, using multiple AI agents to gather, synthesize, and report the findings. The process involves using SERPER, a Google search agent, an AI agent (Anthropic Claude), and a reporting agent. The output includes a log of the actions taken and a one-page report on the company, its leadership, and industry classification.

The hosts discuss the potential applications of agentic AI, such as quickly gathering information for client pitches or identifying legal issues. They also explore the possibility of running AI agents within secure cloud environments to address data privacy concerns. While the concept of agentic AI is still evolving, the hosts believe there is significant potential for these tools to streamline processes and enhance efficiency in the legal industry.

The episode concludes with a lighthearted mention of Greg’s AI-generated song created by UDIO about checking conflicts before going on vacation, showcasing the creative possibilities of AI tools in the legal profession.

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Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Catching Up on AI Agents, and Agentic Processes

In this special “Love and Legal Tech” episode of The Geek in Review podcast, host Greg Lambert sits down with Alexis Hayman, Director of Business Development at Consilio, and Jeff Niemczura, Discovery Attorney at Google, to discuss their unique journey as a couple working in the legal technology industry.

Alexis and Jeff first met in Cleveland, Ohio, while Jeff was a graduate student and Alexis was an undergrad. Their paths diverged as they pursued different careers – Jeff initially considering a PhD in religion and Alexis exploring art history. However, life had other plans, and they both found themselves drawn to the legal profession. Jeff stumbled into law school and graduated into the Great Recession, which led him to become a discovery professional. Alexis, influenced by her father’s innovative approach to his law practice and title insurance company, as well as her mentor, civil rights attorney Jacqueline Green, decided to pursue a law degree at Temple University.

As the couple navigated their careers, they faced challenges and opportunities that brought them closer together in the legal technology space. When Jeff took a job in California, Alexis decided to “infiltrate” the industry, bringing her passion for improving efficiency and building better client relationships to her roles. Their shared experiences and different perspectives on innovation and technology lead to engaging discussions and occasional disagreements, but ultimately strengthen their bond.

Alexis and Jeff emphasize the importance of being well-resourced in their current roles, which allows them to tackle novel challenges and collaborate with talented colleagues. They find excitement in their work, whether it’s being at the forefront of client relationships or finding creative solutions to complex problems.

When asked about their advice for couples considering working in the same field or together, Alexis stresses the importance of being friends with your partner and being able to picture a respectful relationship even in the worst-case scenario (we made a music video about this part of the conversation!). Jeff echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the need for genuine curiosity about one another’s lives and the value of giving each other space when needed.

As Alexis and Jeff continue to navigate their love and legal tech journey, their story serves as an inspiration for couples seeking to balance their personal and professional lives in an ever-evolving industry.

Check out Jeff’s band, Glowing Burns on Spotify and other music streaming services.

 

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Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Love And Legal Tech: Alexis Hayman and Jeff Niemczura

In this episode of The Geek in Review podcast, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert welcome back Richard Tromans, founder of Artificial Lawyer, after his year-and-a-half sabbatical. Tromans shares his insights on the impact of generative AI on the legal industry and discusses his upcoming Legal Innovators conferences in California and London.

Tromans observes that while the legal industry is generally enthusiastic about the potential of generative AI, there is a stark contrast in the perception of its impact outside the legal bubble. He believes that the technology will have a significant effect on the legal sector, but it will be mostly benign, with the potential to add value to the profession once the hype and cynicism subside.

The key to real transformation, according to Tromans, lies in integrating AI throughout the entire business process, rather than using it as a mere helper tool. This integration should encompass document management systems, knowledge management capabilities, templates, and precedents. However, he emphasizes that the current economic model of the legal industry must adapt to the technology for true transformation to occur.

Tromans also discusses the upcoming Legal Innovators California conference in San Francisco, which will focus on generative AI, standardization, and the infrastructure needed to support the evolving legal landscape. The event will feature speakers from law firms, in-house legal departments, academia, and major tech companies.

Looking ahead, Tromans believes that the biggest challenge for the legal industry over the next two to five years will be the willingness of clients and law firms to embrace change and rethink their processes. He argues that the industry could have adopted AI-driven solutions years ago, but the impetus to do so was lacking. The success of this “gentle revolution” will depend on the ability of clients and law firms to challenge assumptions and adapt to the changing technological landscape.

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Transcript

Continue Reading Artificial Lawyer’s Richard Tromans: Back to Work!