Quinten Steenhuis brings a builder’s mindset to legal innovation, rooted in early Indymedia activism where scavenged hardware became community infrastructure. That scrappy origin story carries through a dozen years of eviction defense at Greater Boston Legal Services, with a steady focus on tools that help people solve problems without waiting for a savior in a suit. Along the way, Quinten also lived the unglamorous side of mission tech, keeping systems funded, supported, and usable when budgets get tight and priorities get loud.

The conversation then jumps to Suffolk Law’s approach to generative AI education, including a required learning track for first-year students. Quinten frames the track as foundational training, then points to a deeper bench of follow-on courses and the LIT Lab clinic where students build with real tools, real partners, and real stakes. The throughline stays consistent, exposure alone solves nothing, so Suffolk puts reps, projects, and practice behind the syllabus.

A standout segment tackles the “vaporware semester” problem, where student-built prototypes fade out once finals end. The LIT Lab fights that decay by narrowing tool choices, standardizing around DocAssemble, and supervising work with a clinic-style model, staff stay close, quality stays high, and maintenance stays owned. Projects ship through CourtFormsOnline, with ongoing updates, volunteer support, and a commitment to keep public-facing legal help online for the long haul.

Then the episode turns toward agentic workflows, with examples from Quinten’s consulting work in Virginia and Oregon. One project uses voice-based intake to screen for eligibility, confirm location and income, gather the story in a person’s own words, and route matters into usable categories. Another project speeds bar referral by replacing slow human triage with faster classification and better user interaction patterns, fewer walls of typing, more guided choices, more yes-or-no steps, and fewer dead ends.

In the closing stretch, Quinten shares the sources feeding his learning loop, LinkedIn, Legal Services Corporation’s Innovations conference, the LSNTAP mailing list, podcasts, and Bob Ambrogi’s LawSites, plus the occasional spicy Reddit detour. The crystal ball lands on a thorny challenge for both academia and practice, training lawyers for judgment and verification when AI outputs land near-correct most of the time, then fail in the exact moment nobody expects. Quinten’s bottom line feels blunt and optimistic at once, safe workflows matter, and the public already uses general chat tools for legal help, so the legal system needs harm-reducing alternatives that work.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

[Special Thanks to Legal Technology Hub for their sponsoring this episode.]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Links (as shared by Quinten):
Transcript

Continue Reading From Legal Aid to LIT Lab: Quinten Steenhuis and the Builder’s Approach to AI

This week on The Geek in Review, we sit down with Jennifer McIver, Legal Ops and Industry Insights at Wolters Kluwer ELM Solutions. We open with Jennifer’s career detour from aspiring forensic pathologist to practicing attorney to legal tech and legal ops leader, sparked by a classic moment of lawyer frustration, a slammed office door, and a Google search for “what else can I do with my law degree.” From implementing Legal Tracker at scale, to customer success with major clients, to product and strategy work, her path lands in a role built for pattern spotting, benchmarking, and translating what legal teams are dealing with into actionable insights.

Marlene pulls the thread on what the sharpest legal ops teams are doing with their data right now. Jennifer’s answer is refreshingly practical. Visibility wins. Dashboards tied to business strategy and KPIs beat “everything everywhere all at once” reporting. She talks through why the shift to tools like Power BI matters, and why comfort with seeing the numbers is as important as the numbers themselves. You cannot become a strategic partner if the data stays trapped inside the tool, or inside the legal ops team, or inside someone’s head.

Then we get into the messy part, which is data quality and data discipline. Jennifer points out the trap legal teams fall into when they demand 87 fields on intake forms and then wonder why nobody enters anything, or why every category becomes “Other,” also known as the graveyard of analytics. Her suggestion is simple. Pick the handful of fields that tell a strong story, clean them up, and get serious about where the data lives. She also stresses the role of external benchmarks, since internal trends mean little without context from market data.

Greg asks the question on everyone’s bingo card, what is real in AI today versus what still smells like conference-stage smoke. Jennifer lands on something concrete, agentic workflows for the kind of repeatable work legal ops teams do every week. She shares how she uses an agent to turn event notes into usable internal takeaways, with human review still in the loop, and frames the near-term benefit as time back and faster cycles. She also calls out what slows adoption down inside many companies, internal security and privacy reviews, plus AI committees that sometimes lag behind the teams trying to move work forward.

Marlene shifts to pricing, panels, AFAs, and what frustrates GCs and legal ops leaders about panel performance. Jennifer describes two extremes, rigid rate programs with little conversation, and “RFP everything” process overload. Her best advice sits in the middle, talk early, staff smart, and match complexity to the right team, so cost and risk make sense. She also challenges the assumption that consolidation always produces value. Benchmarking data often shows you where you are overpaying for certain work types, even when volume discounts look good on paper.

We close with what makes a real partnership between corporate legal teams and firms, and Jennifer keeps returning to two themes, communication and transparency, with examples. When an AFA starts drifting, both sides raise their hands early, instead of waiting for invoice rejection drama. When a client invests in “law firm days” that include more than relationship partners, the firm learns the business context, the work improves, and outcomes improve. Jennifer’s crystal ball for 2026 is blunt and useful, data first, start the hard conversations now, and take a serious look at roles and skills inside legal ops, because the job is changing fast.

Links:

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[Special Thanks to Legal Technology Hub for their sponsoring this episode.]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript:

Continue Reading Data First, Partner Better. Jennifer McIver on Legal Ops Benchmarks, AI Agents, and Pricing Reality Checks

This week on The Geek in Review, we discuss the future of legal technology with Dr. Megan Ma, a distinguished research fellow and Associate Director of the Stanford Program in Law, Science, and Technology at the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics, also known as Codex. Dr. Ma’s groundbreaking work in integrating generative AI into legal applications takes center stage as she shares her insights on translating legal knowledge into code and the implications of human-machine collaboration in the legal field.

Dr. Ma discusses her unique background in law and linguistics, emphasizing the challenges of translating legal language into deterministic computer code. Her fascination with language and its nuances has inspired her research at Codex, where she explores how legal concepts can be effectively communicated through technology. She recounts her academic journey, explaining how her multilingual skills and interest in natural language processing have shaped her approach to developing legal tech solutions.

At Codex, the mission is to empower the legal system through innovative technology. Dr. Ma describes Codex as a collaborative hub, where experts from various fields work together to address inefficiencies and pain points in the legal system. She highlights the center’s commitment to human-centered design, ensuring that their technological advancements are co-created with relevant stakeholders. This approach ensures that the tools and solutions developed at Codex are practical and beneficial for both lawyers and clients.

One of the standout initiatives at Codex is their mentorship model, designed to mirror the traditional mentorship found in law firms. Dr. Ma explains how they use AI to create legal personas based on the redline practices of experienced partners. This innovative approach allows junior associates to receive focused guidance, helping them improve their skills and knowledge in a more efficient and impactful manner. By integrating AI into the mentorship process, Codex aims to bridge the gap between theoretical legal education and practical experience.

Dr. Ma introduces the concept of agentic workflows, where AI agents make autonomous decisions based on specified goals rather than predefined tasks. This dynamic interaction is particularly useful in legal negotiations, where unforeseen circumstances often arise. The negotiation model developed by Codex includes features like client rooms, expert consultations, and various levels of difficulty to simulate real-world scenarios. This hands-on training tool is designed to help young lawyers navigate complex negotiations and improve their problem-solving skills.

In the Crystal Ball segment, Dr. Ma shares her vision for the future of legal technology. She emphasizes the importance of developing tools that tap into the legal brain, focusing on the process behind legal decisions rather than just the end product. By capturing the experiential knowledge of seasoned lawyers, Codex aims to create more effective and intuitive AI tools that can support the legal profession in new and innovative ways. Dr. Ma’s insights highlight the potential for AI to transform the legal field, making it more efficient, accessible, and responsive to the needs of both practitioners and clients.

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Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Training AI to Mentor Like a Partner: Insights from Dr. Megan Ma

In this impromptu episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert reconnect after being on the road for a few weeks. They discuss their recent “Love and LegalTech” mini-series, which featured eight couples sharing their experiences working in the legal technology industry. The series provided insights into communication, work-life integration, and the passion for innovation shared by the guests. 

The conversation then shifts to a recent webinar by Toby Brown and Ian Wilson, where they discussed the potential impact of AI tools on law firm hours and profits. While the idea of AI reducing billable hours may seem controversial, the hosts agree that firms must adopt these tools to remain competitive. They also touch on the importance of aligning innovation with practice groups and the need for subject matter experts and people with strong interpersonal skills to drive change management.

Greg demonstrates an example of agentic AI using a tool called Crew AI. He sets up a task to search for information on a company called Take 5 Oil Change, using multiple AI agents to gather, synthesize, and report the findings. The process involves using SERPER, a Google search agent, an AI agent (Anthropic Claude), and a reporting agent. The output includes a log of the actions taken and a one-page report on the company, its leadership, and industry classification.

The hosts discuss the potential applications of agentic AI, such as quickly gathering information for client pitches or identifying legal issues. They also explore the possibility of running AI agents within secure cloud environments to address data privacy concerns. While the concept of agentic AI is still evolving, the hosts believe there is significant potential for these tools to streamline processes and enhance efficiency in the legal industry.

The episode concludes with a lighthearted mention of Greg’s AI-generated song created by UDIO about checking conflicts before going on vacation, showcasing the creative possibilities of AI tools in the legal profession.

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Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert
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Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading Catching Up on AI Agents, and Agentic Processes