This week we welcome Tom Martin, founder of LawDroid, a pioneering AI platform aimed at transforming legal workflows through automation and no-code solutions. Tom shares his journey from practicing law to creating LawDroid, which supports legal professionals with tools designed to streamline tasks, enhance client communication, and automate document preparation. Throughout the conversation, Tom emphasizes how LawDroid is reshaping legal tech and access to justice, especially for underserved communities, by integrating generative AI and language processing into accessible, customizable applications.

Tom dives into the advantages of generative AI in legal practice, noting how tools like LawDroid take the heavy lifting out of document summarization, drafting, and other language-intensive tasks. He describes how AI-driven “agents” provide round-the-clock assistance to clients, effectively extending support beyond traditional working hours. The discussion also covers Tom’s views on AI’s potential to increase accessibility in the legal field, particularly through collaborations with legal aid organizations, allowing individuals to quickly find information and resources following natural disasters or legal challenges.

Beyond practical tools, Tom discusses how LawDroid leverages no-code options, enabling law firms of all sizes to customize solutions without heavy technical knowledge. He highlights LawDroid’s AI receptionist, lead capture bots, and document automation features, which empower legal professionals to serve clients more efficiently and affordably. Tom also shares insights into how LawDroid’s adaptability allows it to serve various legal practices, from estate planning to client intake processes, with options for those looking for hands-on or fully supported implementations.

The conversation further explores the implications of AI on the legal profession’s future, including both the potential for job transformation and the significant efficiency gains that AI brings. Tom reassures listeners that while AI may shift certain roles, it ultimately enhances lawyers’ ability to focus on complex and meaningful work, opening doors for expanded client bases and reduced costs for legal representation. He also speaks to data security, underscoring LawDroid’s commitment to protecting client data and privacy in compliance with ethical standards.

To conclude, Tom shares his thoughts on the importance of fostering a collaborative legal tech community, reflected in his co-founding of the Legal Technology Awards. He underscores the need to continually recognize leaders in the industry who are committed to social impact, innovation, and improving access to justice. As the interview wraps up, Tom looks forward to future developments in AI, advocating for an inclusive legal system that leverages technology to guarantee access to justice for all.

For more insights from Tom Martin and to learn about LawDroid, check out the links below.

Links & Resources

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TRANSCRIPT

Marlene Gebauer 0:07
Welcome to the geek in review. The podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene Gebauer.

Greg Lambert 0:14
And I’m Greg Lambert. So

Marlene Gebauer 0:16
Happy. Dia de Muertos, Greg, yeah, it’s big deal here in Houston,

Greg Lambert 0:22
it is. I can’t Well, I’m still stunned. It’s November, but I said that about this time last year, so, you know, I guess it’s an annual event.

Marlene Gebauer 0:30
I’m stunned. It’s still 80 degrees

Greg Lambert 0:31
that I’m not surprised at. It’s either 80 degrees or snowing one one or the one,

Marlene Gebauer 0:37
or the other one or the other.

Greg Lambert 0:40
So what do you got going on?

Marlene Gebauer 0:43
Well, I got some I got some family coming down to to visit their first time visiting Texas. So they’re in the Austin area right now, and we’re gonna, we’re gonna get together and spend some time together. So I’m eager to hear about their their their adventure, yeah,

Greg Lambert 1:02
well, tell them not all of Texas is as weird as Austin. So

Marlene Gebauer 1:06
that’s right, that’s right,

Greg Lambert 1:07
only Austin has that. Yeah, and the food’s better in Houston, by the way, so of course, it is just so they know. So everything better in Houston? Yeah, I’ve got, I got some family coming down. We’re going to go up to Lake Livingston and spend the weekend. So it’s good. It’s the first time that they’ve been down in a while. So it’s going to be good to catch up with them. Crete,

Marlene Gebauer 1:27
sounds good. Well, we’d like to welcome Tom Martin, founder of law droid Tom. In addition to being the founder of law droid, Tom does many, many things.

Greg Lambert 1:39
Yeah, he’s quite the renaissance man.

Marlene Gebauer 1:40
He is. He’s a professor, a philosopher, a coder, lawyer and a highly success, successful author. So Tom Welcome to the geek in review.

Tom Martin 1:52
Hey, Marlene, hey Greg. I’m so excited to be here. And you know, talk about number of things going on in the AI, legal world.

Greg Lambert 2:00
Yeah, I think there’s a few things going on from So Tom, you’ve been around the the the industry for quite a while now, but do you mind just kind of sharing your story about the founding of law Droid and your journey in the legal tech industry?

Tom Martin 2:19
Yeah, I’ll try to keep it short. So I got started with lodroid About eight years ago, but I’ve been a practicing lawyer for just over 25 years. I’ve been dabbling in tech the whole time, and lodroit was just one way to kind of crystallize what I was working on, and I was making these tools for myself. So I thought I’ll help other lawyers that are in the same boat as I am. A solo, small firm. Work is what I did, and still do. Lot of lawyers are benefiting, benefiting from it, you know. So that’s what I do.

Greg Lambert 2:53
I’m curious, law droid, what’s the what’s story behind the name?

Tom Martin 3:01
You know, just, I mean, it’s kind of obvious, right? Just trying to put together,

Greg Lambert 3:06
like the Star Wars nerd, is that, yeah, automation and legal,

Tom Martin 3:09
but, but, yeah, there was definitely that influence. I love the idea of, like, a little r2 unit that can help the law.

Marlene Gebauer 3:18
So Tom, what do you think are some of the key advantages of using generative AI assistance for for lawyers and for legal professionals?

Tom Martin 3:30
Look, the great thing about generative AI is that, you know, it’s based on large language models. It is optimized for language. So are we as lawyers like that’s what we deal with day in day out. It’s about tweaking the words to make them get what we want for our clients. And so this thing is expert at that, and takes takes a lot of the burden off our shoulders, any you know, everything from something as simple as summarizing documents to finding references within a document to even help us, helping us to draft stuff. So I don’t think we could have asked for for more, although there, there is a lot a lot more to do in this area. Say

Marlene Gebauer 4:12
there, there is some improvement that that we were aware of.

Tom Martin 4:19
Yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s definitely room for improvement. But I think what I found interesting is just human nature, like, how quickly the goal posts move. This stuff would be miraculous, like three years ago, and now, you know, we’ve kind of pushed it out. Now. It’s just commonplace. Actually, John McCarthy, who was one of the godfathers of AI said that, you know, soon as it starts working, it’s not AI anymore. But, yeah, there’s a lot of room for improvement, but that’s also a challenge, right?

Marlene Gebauer 4:54
I mean, it, it, you know, I think we, we, we hit this and, I mean, it was so amazing. Thing and that, I think people were a little dazzled, and then we had to take some time to sort of take a deeper dive and look at it. And, you know, okay, we’re finding some things. There’s, you hallucinations, and, you know, sometimes it’s slow and, you know, but compared to where we were before, kind of amazing. And we recognize that there needs to be improvements. And you’re seeing, you’re seeing those improvements being made in the in the industry.

Tom Martin 5:26
Yeah, for sure, there’s a lot of ways to cut against it. You know, if you’re using the consumer facing version of chat GPT, you’re definitely going to have some hallucinations. But now they have that web search which, by the way, is ranking your podcast right up there as one of the top podcasts

Greg Lambert 5:42
as it should, but that cuts

Tom Martin 5:44
against hallucinations, right? Because it’s pulling from factual information, and then with legal AI, applications are built on top of the technology, but have their own source of like, trusted information. So it gets even better. So there’s definitely, definitely ways of making the system much more truthful, accurate and reliable.

Greg Lambert 6:05
So no one of the things that you’ve been working on is is the no code agentic workflow transformation. So can you talk to us a little bit about what you’re doing with that and where you think are the ways that legal professionals can that can help them manage their task and their processes. And I would say, is this the the word of the of the year seems to be workflow automation, or phrase, I guess, is that, are we talking workflow automation, or is this something else,

Tom Martin 6:43
something else, a little bit different, workflow, automation is so like 2020, right?

Greg Lambert 6:51
I think not, according to a lot of vendors out there,

Tom Martin 6:54
what I think the catch phrase for this year, for all vendors, is, is agents. And, you know, agentic, maybe agentic workflows. And actually, you know, I don’t want to be one of those guys, like we’ve been working on this for years, but, but we have for the past eight years, and the the bots or agents that we’ve had, the whole purpose of the ones that we’ve built are that they can take actions independently. 24/7, 365, so you don’t have to be constantly one to one involved with it synchronously, right? Chat, GPT, co pilots, you have to be there one to one. Ask for something, get a response. Ask for something, get a response. Agents free you from that. And that’s what’s so promising about them, for all business but lawyers, too, for example, on our platform, you can, in five minutes, spin up an AI receptionist that is doing the job. 24/7 365, answering phone calls, taking messages, routing calls with a pleasant voice and saying exactly the script that you want. Not too shabby. That takes a lot of overhead and burden off, and also makes all that information like at your fingertips, whereas if it’s somebody speaking to somebody, you may not have notes about it or know exactly what happened. And let’s face

Greg Lambert 8:12
it, attorneys are notorious for not answering the phones and being responsive. So any anything you can do to help with that has got to be a plus.

Tom Martin 8:24
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the number one bar complaint is lack of communication for

Marlene Gebauer 8:30
lawyers. I’m switching topics a little bit here. Well, a lot, a bit here. But I, you know, I am very curious to get your opinion on this, you know, as kind of a thought leader in this space. So, do you see generative AI and no code platforms playing a role in increasing access to justice for undeserved communities? Or is it, is it going to be, you know, is it going to be the opposite? Is it going to have the opposite type of effect? Because you’re hearing a lot of discussion both sort of pro and con that okay, if they they this is something that’s going to be made, and it’s not going to give them as as high level and experience. And then others are saying, this is a situation where nobody’s getting this type of of help, and this is a way to be able to do it within a cost parameters

Tom Martin 9:27
bias, right? I’m definitely pro using generative AI to help. I’m pro anyway of trying to help, right? And I think this is particularly suited to it, and I know for a fact that it’s helping because we’ve worked with legal aid organizations to incorporate this technology to reach out and provide people the help that they need immediately. We’ve done it with legal aid in North Carolina, their Leah assistant has helped 10s of 1000s of people. That information, including just after Hurricane Helene. You know, they don’t have the time to be reading through hundreds of pages of great, you know, greatly sourced web pages of information. They just want the answer, and this thing gives them the answer, they could take action on it. We’re doing a similar project with the state court of Alaska, and also the State Bar of Arizona and others. So there’s a ton of interest. It does the job, and I think that’s one of the killer applications of generative AI.

Greg Lambert 10:35
I’m curious on on the hurricane relief, what’s some of kind of the examples that that people are getting results that they wouldn’t necessarily get without these tools.

Tom Martin 10:51
Well, I think what’s what’s happening is that they’re getting direct access to that information about where to you know, where to get the forms that they need, where to get the advice that they need. So like, if they want to get those phone phone numbers or forms or all of that, it’s aggregated into one synthesized response so they get that as needed, because everyone has, like, different questions, different concerns. And so the beauty of Gen AI is that it could tailor the response to that particular person, whereas if you use a web page, you have to find it, you got to track it down, or you’re choosing one option and then maybe another option, and maybe they’re in different places, so they’re not easy to find.

Greg Lambert 11:32
And I’m being dangerous here, because I’m coming with questions off the top of my head, but it would seem like also like that some of the future, if not current, uh, examples of what, how this could help is that, with it being the large language models, there’s multiple languages actually, that, you know, curious could come in. So I’m, you know, it may not be specific to this, but I think that’s something that that these types of tools could really help with it. It’s not just, you know, does someone speak English and can get get the information back in English, but seems like with with these you you have some flexibility,

Tom Martin 12:16
absolutely, like with Leah in North Carolina, somebody asked it a question in Spanish. It understands the context. This person needs a response in Spanish. Response to them in Spanish. Everything in the database, like all the trusted information that they’ve provided us to train the AI is in English, obviously, but immediately, on the fly, gets translated into the language that the user is communicating in So, pretty amazing,

Greg Lambert 12:45
pretty impressive. So let’s get back to to law droid. And I know there’s a lot of custom, custom ability and flexibility that you’ve built in to the system. Generically, you talk about, can

you talk about this flexibility to meet specific needs, even across different legal practices?

Tom Martin 13:08
Yeah, definitely, there’s a lot to talk about. We have two products. We have copilot, which is an AI legal assistant, just like a bunch of others out there. But we also have logroid builder. Now that’s the heavy hitter, that’s the one where you can build custom agents to your needs. And actually it’s the platform that we used to build lodge copilot. And so that’s kind of an example for law firms of how sophisticated you know an application they could build based on the platform. But it fits pretty much any practice area, because when the lawyer gets involved, they can customize it to their needs. Some template agents that we have where you could just spin it up quickly is the AI receptionist that I mentioned before, a lead capture bot that you put on your website engages like in a sales conversation with people to convert them to leads. We also have a generative ai q, a bot, which is like the one at the legal aid organizations. You just feed in the information. It can answer questions on the fly, and then last, lastly, the last template we have is one that can interview clients, or potential clients, gather that information and actually complete documents on the fly. So document automation agent, you could just think of all different applications for that. An estate planning lawyer could have it, you know, creating first drafts of estate planning documents in Word, emailing them to the attorney. The attorney has it 80 to 90% buttoned up before they even talk to the client.

Greg Lambert 14:42
Yeah, I’m the client. Oh, good, go ahead.

Marlene Gebauer 14:44
I was just saying. I’m curious how hard is it to do the build. I mean, I know this is sort of low code, no code, but for your average attorney, who you know may not be familiar. With, with any of that, how easy is it for them to do it?

Tom Martin 15:07
Well, there is some work involved. We do have, like self self help, videos, support. We’re there for them, and that’s if, you know, they go down the do it yourself route. We try to make it as easy as possible with the templates. But you know, definitely, I understand as a lawyer myself, they may not have the time inclination to even learn how to do that. That’s why we have a second option, which is a done for you, option where we can build it out for them. They just answer some questions in the questionnaire, and then, based on that, build it out. They get implemented very quickly, and get it out there helping them.

Greg Lambert 15:47
It’s kind of your sweet spot for for your client base, is it a little small, firm, larger What? What? It’s kind of the spectrum of your your customer base?

Tom Martin 16:00
Yeah, I mean to be open with you. I have two customer bases, like, there’s the projects where I work with legal aid. I have a legal insurance company that’s a client, and those are kind of like longer term, larger ticket item projects that we work on. On the other hand, there’s the software service where I’m working with individual law firms and lawyers to help them automate their their law practice, and one hand washes the other, like the projects kind of underwrite everything allow us to build over build up over the years, the software service platform, and that’s been growing, you know, over the past couple of years. So it’s really, you know, I’m very thankful for everyone that’s worked with me, because to remain bootstrapped but profitable without having to take VC investment, without having to give up control or be under someone else’s timeline, has been a great advantage, because I think right now, as you’re seeing, there’s so much change When it comes to generative AI that to be able to, like, wait it out and incorporate the changes slowly as they make sense, as opposed to being under the gun, is a big advantage.

Greg Lambert 17:14
Do you have any inspirations to either, you know, for example, move in on the corporate side or larger law firms, or is there someone that you think could take advantage of of what law droid does that don’t necessarily have law droid on on the radar?

Tom Martin 17:35
Unfortunately, I think law droid is probably not on a lot of people’s radar, and that’s that’s a problem

Greg Lambert 17:40
radar? Yeah,

Tom Martin 17:43
I hope so. Because I think, I think in the the scope of all of the options that are available right now for legal AI, I know for a fact that logroid is one of the most affordable and one of the most dynamic, and that you can apply to a lot of different use cases. You know, if you’re if, if you want for your law firm, like an AI tool chest, where you can get into this and build it out for yourself, intuitively, easily and affordably. That’s law droid. So yeah, I welcome that interest, and I think we can really help a lot of people.

Marlene Gebauer 18:21
So one of the things that I deal with, pretty much on a daily basis, daily basis, is data security and privacy requirements for for different vendors, Gen AI vendors. And never heard of that? Yeah, no, never, never. And you know, I understand, like we as an industry are struggling with that right now. We’re wrestling with it, and that’s a good thing, and we’ll figure it out, but in the meantime. So what are the measures that law droid takes to ensure that data security and privacy for you know, users, for you know, law firms or legal departments and and law firm clients.

Tom Martin 19:05
It’s a great question we get asked a lot. It comes up conversations that we have, and it should. It should, you know, like, as a lawyer myself, I understand the importance of these ethics rules and that we comply with them, and then we keep the best interests of our clients at heart, because that’s, that’s what we do as professionals, so that that filters down into how we handle the information. So for example, all of the data that comes into our system, we don’t train against it. And every vendor that we use, we have contractual, you know, obligations from them not to train against it. We do retain the information for the convenience of the users. We have, you know, archives of conversations they can refer back to. Sometimes they need to for compliance to just make sure that you know, if somebody said hey, they accepted the terms of service, that this is not legal advice, that, in fact, we have a log of that and. They can refer back to it. But we also allow data management, so that if they want to delete conversations after a month, they could go into the system, they could Bulk Delete they could individually delete conversations. So we’re very respectful of getting rid of the data if they want to get rid of it. And then, of course, for security, we have encryption, both in terms of the transmission of the data to us and then how it’s kept. So we take reasonable precautions to ensure that all of this information is secure private, and that we provide the best situation for their clients that is kept in a secure manner.

Marlene Gebauer 20:41
I’m gonna, I’m gonna hop back to the theme I had about, like, how easy is it for for lawyers to use this technology? You know, as an attorney yourself, you know, what advice would you give to lawyers who are hesitant to adopt, you know, AI or no code solutions in their practice, because that’s, that’s always a challenge with, you know, innovation teams and others who try and roll out these products is to, you know, get, you know, the the clientele at their organization To to use it and to consistently use it. Yeah,

Tom Martin 21:23
all right, so my answer is kind of like a clarion call, like a call to action. Because I think, I think sometimes lawyers, they have, and I’ve been guilty of this in the past too, but have this sense of, you know, I could, I could wait. I could wait it out, right? Like it’s not quite perfect for me. I’m just going to push away from the table and because we’ve had, like, a pretty iron clad monopoly in the past that’s been more doable than with the sandboxes. With, you know, in California, there’s multiple licenses of non lawyers that are actually essentially practicing law with a document preparation some paralegals and others throughout the different states, that level of like iron clad monopoly is kind of it’s being eaten into. And then you have AI companies that are making all of this information easily accessible. You know, as Greg pointed out with the web search, on open AI right now, on ChatGPT, you can find a lot of this legal information very quickly, directly through it. So it’s not like we have control the way we used to. They can end run us. And so, you know, the best way, I think, to battle that is to jump into it, experiment with it, remain curious. You’re only going to be able to master AI if you experiment and use AI and the attorney that is already using it is going to be ahead of the game. So one last thing I’ll mention is that if you look at the actual statistics, not just me talking about it as a vendor, which you might think, well, you’re biased. Tom, but if you look at, you know, recent numbers out of Walters, cluer, it’s 86% of in house counsel are using Gen AI in some way. And I believe it’s 779, or 78% of law firms are using generative AI. And of course, the Clio numbers are that last year went from 19% adoption to this year, 79% adoption. So this is a tidal wave of interest in adoption, and you don’t want to be left behind.

Greg Lambert 23:34
How do you how do you balance that with I know there are times where I show attorneys. You know, hey, look, look at this feature that we can do. Here’s, here’s something that we can do to streamline your work. And the initial response is, oh, God, it’s good thing I’m only five years away from retirement, because I don’t think that I’m going to have a job in five years, which I try to, like, bring them off the cliff. So how, how do you discuss the the benefit, AI, and how, and then how that benefit actually enhances the role of the attorney, rather than than necessarily takes away from it?

Tom Martin 24:16
That’s a great question, you know, and it’s, it’s a, it’s a matter of good news, bad news. I always like to deal with the bad news first. So the bad news is, yes, it is going to there are going to be jobs lost as they’re currently defined. So the types of job skills and work that we do day to day, pre AI, that’s not going to remain the same. There’s a lot of stuff that’s going to get removed from that and then put into the lap of AI, because it’s just much better at doing route summarization, you know, data extraction, all that stuff, which I know when I had colleagues of mine come out in the late 90s into the working world. You know. They were not happy to be pouring through 1000s and 1000s of pages of deposition trance transcripts doing that kind of like discovery in the old days. So that’s bad news, that jobs are going to change by definition, but the good news is that AI is going to be able to help us with a lot of the work that we’re doing and make it more interesting, because it will be able to focus on more interesting stuff. So that’s that’s kind of the good news, bad news about it. And I think on the net, it’s going to be a net positive. It’ll also, by the way, by making all this more efficient, bring down the cost of representation, so we could actually represent more, and it could widen the market and the number of customers that can access it and afford us.

Greg Lambert 25:52
Talk about the big event that you hold every year, the the annual legal technology awards. And I think last one was, was here in Texas, in Austin, talk, talk about the event, kind of why you created it and and you know why it’s important to recognize some of the leadership and and accomplishments, and

Tom Martin 26:16
for the legal Tech creators? Yeah, it’s been a it’s been a work of of love and heart. I think because the people that come to it, the people that we recognize, they’re really about giving back to the community, and it’s also about doing well, but doing good. And so it was in Austin, it was at the bar mansion. It was an amazing like event that I think really brought people together. And our mission, I co founded this organization with Pat excuse me, Patrick palace and cat moon. We’re friends, and it really came from a place of we’re in the community. We love everyone in our community. We wanted to have Greg’s used to get together and just hang out and party honestly. But also, like having the mission of recognizing those people, holding them up as examples, so that it can create, you know, cycle of improvement for for us and like the whole industry, and thereby benefit everyone in the world, really. So it’s, it’s a bit idealistic, it’s very grassroots, and I’m very excited that it’s going to continue next year and hopefully the year and hopefully the year after that, and

Marlene Gebauer 27:44
the year after that, hopefully you have in Texas again, I

Greg Lambert 27:47
was going to say we’re if you got to get it lined up for the event place,

Tom Martin 27:50
yet, haven’t completely decided. But I, just as I think you mentioned the top, I accepted a position as an adjunct professor at Suffolk Law School, which is in Boston. Typically, in the past, we’ve kind of been in the same place as the Clio cloud conference. We’ve had the awards, and then they, you know, have their conference. It may work out that way, but we haven’t decided ultimately,

Greg Lambert 28:20
yet, carve you out some space at Suffolk for the event. Yeah,

Marlene Gebauer 28:25
absolutely,

Tom Martin 28:27
yeah, we’ll see. So

Marlene Gebauer 28:30
Tom, we’ve reached the end of the interview, and what we do with all of our guests is we ask everybody crystal ball question. And basically this is, what future developments or features can we expect from law droid in the coming years? Or what thoughts do you have on on the future of AI development? That’s, I know pressure’s on, just a little Yeah, well, I could the Great, the great thing is, you can be wrong because, like, it’s all just happening so quickly. It really doesn’t matter whether anybody’s right or wrong. It’s like, I don’t think we can figure it out at this point.

Tom Martin 29:10
Well, the easier one I’ll take first, which is like, how is it gonna affect log droid? That part is easier to answer, because the way that logroid has been built out as a platform is to take advantage of, like, all the new improvements. So, like, we started out with classic AI, if then statements, like, you know, if you choose a, then it go down one round. If you choose B, then it goes down to different routes. So, like, very like decision tree. Like fine tune decision tree, yeah, exactly. But we’ve had added layers with natural language, then with generative AI and taking advantage of everything. So like, when things get even better, we’ll be able to utilize that as for how things are going to play out more broadly, I don’t know, but one thing I can say is. Is that I think it would be a terrible thing if all we did with that improvement that’s going to happen and is happening right now. It’d be a terrible thing if all we did was build a faster horse. Because I think that what’s happening is that we’re being faced we’re being given an opportunity to reshape how we actually interact with the law, and I think if we do it the right way, we’ll be able to reshape it so that we include everyone under the tent and not only increase access to justice, but guarantee access to justice for everyone.

Greg Lambert 30:38
Yeah, I was afraid you’re going to say the be a shame if all we built were richer lawyers so well, never know. You can have both. It’s not, it’s not a, you know, it’s not a zero sum game. I think, I think it could be a win, win, absolutely. Or Tom Martin from lodroid Want to thank you very much for coming in and talking with us today. It’s been great.

Tom Martin 31:05
Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Marlene. I really enjoyed having Well, I really enjoyed being here. Thank you.

Marlene Gebauer 31:13
And of course, thanks to all of you our listeners for taking the time to listen to the geek and review podcast. If you enjoy the show, share with a colleague. We’d love to hear from you. So reach out to us on social media on LinkedIn

Greg Lambert 31:26
Tom, we’ll put some links on the show notes. But what’s the best way for people to reach out and find out more about law Droid or to reach out to you with more questions?

Tom Martin 31:38
Thanks, Greg. You could find me pretty much on all social social media at lodroid. Lodroid is my handle, but I also have a sub stack where I put out articles and my own podcast at lodroid manifesto.com and of course, lodroid is the loddroit.com so feel free to follow up. Love to hear from you.

Marlene Gebauer 31:58
So if they remember anything? It’s just, it’s law droid. Droid, yeah, law droid, okay. And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry David DeCicca, thanks so much, Jerry.

Greg Lambert 32:10
Thanks Jerry, all right. Marlene, I’ll talk to you later.