On this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert delve into how AI can transform legal writing with ClearBrief founder and CEO Jacqueline Schafer. As a former litigator, Schafer experienced firsthand the frustrating scramble to finalize briefs and prepare filings. She founded ClearBrief in 2020 to leverage AI to analyze documents and suggest relevant evidence and citations to streamline drafting.

ClearBrief integrates into Microsoft Word to align with lawyers’ existing workflows. By uploading case documents and discovery materials, the AI can pull facts and quotes directly from the record to support legal arguments in the brief. New features even generate chronologies and timelines from case files automatically. Schafer explains the AI doesn’t hallucinate text from scratch, avoiding ethical pitfalls. Rigorous security and confidentiality controls provide the trust needed to gain adoption at top law firms.

According to Schafer, attorneys now exhibit much greater openness to tailored AI tools that enhance productivity versus disrupting their workflows entirely. Younger associates and paralegals tend to be most enthusiastic about the technology while firm leadership lags. She believes empowering the next generation of legal professionals with AI will modernize law practice to better serve unmet needs.

Looking ahead, Schafer expects to expand ClearBrief’s features to assist paralegals along with corporate attorneys beyond litigation. By leveraging AI to handle tedious tasks like cite-checking, lawyers can focus their time on high-value analysis and strategy. With the aid of trusted AI writing assistants, attorneys can craft compelling briefs and filings more efficiently while still verifying the underlying sources.


Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ |  ⁠Spotify⁠ | YouTube (NEW!)


Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66

Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠


Marlene Gebauer 0:07
Welcome to The Geek in Review. The podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal profession. I’m Marlene Gebauer.

Greg Lambert 0:15
And I’m Greg Lambert. So Marlene, once again, you’re on the road this week and I was a road warrior. We’re Where were you this week?

Marlene Gebauer 0:23
I was in Washington DC last week. And actually before that I was in Lubbock, Texas, for family for family weekend and literally just came home from Lubbock and like took off for for Washington. So literally in 24 hours. I’m in West Texas. I’m in Houston, and then I’m in Washington, DC. I was there for work and doing some listening sessions that went really, really well. So but I hear we have another Schwartz. Greg.

Greg Lambert 0:52
Yes, apparently this time in Los Angeles, we in our home, or at least an attorney related to a firm that had to explain why there was a brief submitted to the court that had multiple made up citations in there. Excuse was Sorry, didn’t check it. So yeah. Then I’m sure the judge is saying sorry, doesn’t cut it. He find them $999

Marlene Gebauer 1:22
One dollars short of having to report it to the State Bar.

Greg Lambert 1:27
Yep. So if you want to learn more, Joe Patrice at the above, has a good article written in Joe Patrice is real boy so no AI was used there?

Marlene Gebauer 1:37
Yeah, Joe, thank you for keeping on top of those. We are thrilled Greg to have with us today. Jacqueline Schafer, founder and CEO of clearbrief.ai, a company using AI to revolutionize legal writing. Jacqueline is an award winning entrepreneur and a former litigator who saw firsthand the need for AI powered tools to improve the accuracy and efficiency of brief writing.

Greg Lambert 2:00
Yeah, since founding ClearBrief, and 2020, the company has quickly become an industry leader winning accolades like the 2023, litigation technology Product of the Year. So Jackie, welcome to The Geek in Review. It’s good to have you here.

Jacqueline Schafer 2:15
Thank you so much. It’s such an honor to be here. So Jackie,

Greg Lambert 2:19
have a really impressive background as a litigator before making the leap to start in ClearBrief Ai, what originally inspired you to take your career in this new direction and start a company focused on AI to enhance legal writing? And was there a particular moment or pain point? In your own experience with brief writing that made you realize that man, I really need to create this kind of technology? Because I hate this this piece?

Jacqueline Schafer 2:48
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, I am not one of those entrepreneurs who is like, I hate practicing law, like I truly love the law. I started out my career at Paul Weiss in New York, as a litigator, I spent most of my career in government, I actually worked in in Alaska and Washington state where I live now and in Seattle, you know, as an assistant attorney general. So I had the chance to, you know, regularly briefed and argued cases before state appellate courts many times before the Alaska Supreme Court, really just fun opportunities. But there was over and over that super stressful scramble, that always happens, right? Like we’re I love the strategy. And I love the, you know, all of the thought that goes into writing the brief, and synthesizing your arguments and the evidence. And then there’s just kind of like a nightmare before you get things filed, where you have all these little details, that the scramble scramble, it’s just like a terrible scramble. And you you know, it all actually sort of related back to the citations was one kind of insight that I had, where not only are you site checking, and you know, checking everything over around the the law, the facts, you also have to do any exhibits, you have to do the table of authorities, you have to sometimes do hyperlinks, which is becoming now more and more common. So that was a big kind of insight I have about the problem. But I had a really formative experience. Actually, before I started the company. I was living in Seattle at the time, and I was working on my first pro bono asylum case. And I was representing a mom and her toddler, where the stakes were, you know, incredibly high. Basically, if we lost they would be sent back to Honduras and likely murdered. So that was terrifying to honestly, to walk into that final hearing, you get sort of like one shot. And I’d written a massive brief, like a 50 page brief. And I, you know, was trying to weave together the evidence that we had, but from the moment that we walked in, the judge was extremely grumpy. And just, you know, actually, the first thing he said was, you’re pregnant, you know, to my client, and just, it was just not a good vibe. As the lawyer you’re just like, oh, no, we’re gonna Lose, he hates us kind of thing. But there was a moment during the hearing where, you know, I pointed him to one of the pieces of evidence that I had written about in the brief it was good declaration by a medical professional. And he read the evidence, he read that declaration, and he changed his mind. And he believed my client. And we won. And he and he granted them asylum. So that was just like an amazing moment. And something that I seen many times and experience of how the evidence can really, that is what makes the difference. So you can, you know, it’s not about my advocacy, it’s about putting the evidence in front of that judge and letting it speak for itself. That is, at the heart of actually, what ClearBrief does, is that it keeps the evidence visible, while during the writing process during the editing during the filing. And you can actually, you know, file a fully hyperlinked document that you read it side by side, we call it like a ClearBrief. Because you can read the PDF of your pleading, and every single source is clickable and visible, that is accomplished with AI. But that’s that was the driving force behind starting the company.

Marlene Gebauer 6:11
I’m glad that that you that you changed the judge’s mind on that one. And that that was an experience that led you to develop the company ClearBrief uses AI to analyze legal documents and provide suggested evidence and citations to support legal arguments. Can you explain more about this technology and its key capabilities?

Jacqueline Schafer 6:33
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we all start with when we’re working on any kind of legal writing. So it’s not just briefs, it’s, you know, motions, memos, even outlines. And I’ll talk about one of our new generative AI ai features. And a second that is for developing a chronology. But basically, you have a mess of evidence. And it is your mission, to take this giant jumble of, you know, there, there’s all sorts of different types of documents, there’s emails, there’s, depending on if it’s a real estate case, lease agreements, there might be transcripts, depositions, expert testimony, and you have to weave it together into something coherent, and credible. So with ClearBrief, it’s a Microsoft Word add in. So that was one of my other insights in building AI, which at the you know, it’s funny, because like, a couple of years ago, and 2020, people thought that was kind of like dinky, like, Oh, something that sits beside you and word and, you know, and now it’s like, everyone’s trying to build technology, as a word add in. But you know, as litigators, we are in Word. That’s the one piece of technology we like really know how to use. You click a button, and it splits the screen in Word. And then you drag in all of your sources. And we have different integrations. So it’s easy to bring those right in from your case management system for your ediscovery. And then you can just write and use our add facts cite button, which was something I thought of when I was an associate, honestly, where you know how, like, the partner would be editing a draft and just put like, a bunch of additional stuff in the in the brief and you’re like, where did you get this? I don’t think this is true. You don’t know if this exists. So you can select any text in your Word document, and you click the Add fact Site button. And ClearBrief AI will suggest you pages from across all of those different documents that could best support what you’ve written. So it’s kind of spoon feeding you the evidence, by the way, you could also drag in your opponents brief ClearBrief converts that into a Word doc. And then you can use those same features to find contradictory evidence to what they might have included the one favorable quote from that deposition, the AI will find you all the other places in the depositions that talked about that concept. And then you can insert a hyperlink to that page of where that was found. So it stays with you and anyone else who’s editing this or if the if the partner is looking at this draft, I have this imaginary partner still like haunting me. What I’m telling is, that is really a big part of I think, how we’re also meeting the moment of where law firms are in terms of AI that the number one commandment of any law firm that is starting to use AI, is you have to review the output, you have to review everything you have to check over every single thing. And just like that sporer story you just told at the beginning of the podcast about the attorney, you know, the latest attorney who just put something that an AI had generated into his brief. The partners want to be sure that they can see all of the sources and you know, just verify that you didn’t hallucinate something. one more aspect of ClearBrief that is really taking off. We have a new generator have aI feature that, again, you drag in all of that mess documents that you got from the client, and flick a button. And literally it takes seconds and ClearBrief Instant hyperlink timeline will boom, it will put a chart in your Word document that has every date extracted from the document, including like implicit dates. So if a witness was like, Well, yesterday was walking down the street, and then you know, I saw something happen. And then today, blah, blah, blah, it will put those dates in from yesterday and today into your timeline. It will include a description that the AI generates of what happened, that comes directly from your documents. So it’s not hallucinated. But then this is the important part, it has that hyperlinked citation in the right hand column, so that you can verify where it got that date where it got that summary. But it’s done for you. We had a user tell us like last week, he was like, This saves me an entire day’s work. I can’t believe like, This is amazing. And often, it’s like that non billable type work, where you’re not going to bill for all those hours you spent sort of tracking down, you know, the dates and the documents, and you’re gonna bill for that high level analysis that you do have that information.

Greg Lambert 11:18
Talk to us a little bit more about the chronology. And I’ll go ahead and since you got into the hallucinations, how is it that you can use the generative AI to pull that out and use that amount of creativity, but also not hallucinate at this at the same time? Because I think that’s one of the biggest fears that most firms have is they love the idea of the creativity. But there’s certain things they don’t want it to be creative on. So how do you strike that balance?

Jacqueline Schafer 11:53
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I think at this point, a lot of lawyers have probably played around with like, GPT, three, right, like the free version of ChatGPT. That’s like available online, where you could ask it to, like, write me a brief opening, you know, facts section about a car accident, in the style of Taylor Swift, or like, you can have it kind of spit out different types of writing,

Marlene Gebauer 12:19
I’d like to see that.

Jacqueline Schafer 12:22
It would be quite entertaining. The problem is that it is drawing on information from the internet, it’s kind of drawing on patterns of language to just sort of make up something that sounds like it will meet those parameters that you’ve set. So it couldn’t be something that you could over a few drafts keep editing and editing to get it closer to reflect the reality of your secure, confidential record. But that’s a lot of work. And it’s probably more work than just doing right doing it yourself at that point. Alright, so with ClearBrief, though, you have a sandbox, so by uploading your discovery documents, that the only information in the record can be provided to the court, right. So our AI is trained to just stick within that those boundaries. We’re still using the power of the Large Language Models that weave together language in a way that sounds better than, you know, maybe your average first year associate, like, we’re using the great things about generative AI and the power of its ability to write fluidly. But we’re limiting it to just the information that the court can actually consider. And I think one other related point is just that. It’s not easy to build a company that lawyers can trust with their data. So when ChatGPT first came out, there were all these different apps that were like, lawyers just put your data in here and do this and that and and there were very questionable, you know, security person. Yeah, we have built ClearBrief. Really, from day one, we were sock two type two certified, which means we meet the strictest security confidentiality requirements in the industry. And we’re audited on all of that by a third party. So that’s why we are used by hundreds of law firms across the country, including Big law, including courts and government agencies. And now we’re actually starting to be used by major law firms in Europe as well, which is really cool. But they also have extremely stringent requirements. You can definitely harness the power of your documents, but you have to make sure that the product that you use is designed to safely handle them in the way that lawyers need data to be treated.

Greg Lambert 14:38
Well, you announced recently that clear brief has integrations with relativity and iManage. Why are integrations important and what other platforms are you planning on integrating with?

Jacqueline Schafer 14:52
Yeah, so integrations were something that were really driven by our customers, asking us for them. So we started It actually with Clio. And I’m super proud, we won best new app in 2022, for our integration that we built with Clio, because we started out by serving solo and small firms, and we still that they’re really important customer group for us, then we started working with larger firms, I manage net docs, relativity, those are for ediscovery. And those are the systems that they tend to use. So we built those integrations as well. And what’s cool is that, you know, it’s actually not something that any company can just get an integration going, it is a partnership where those companies have to trust the company. So it took a while to build our, you know, credibility as a small, scrappy startup to get those partnerships. So I’m really proud of that. It just makes it really seamless for lawyers to bring in, you know, their case documents. And the way that they think about this at firms is that when you get all of this information from your client, you are sort of dumping it somewhere where you want that to be like, This is our repository of everything, it’s like the junk drawer of the case. So we can prove we got this on this day with every single item, when you’re you’re sitting down to write about something, you don’t necessarily want every single thing in the kitchen sink, you’ve narrowed it down to, you know, maybe during the ediscovery process, or just your own initial review that like there might be 5000 PDFs that you want out of the 10,000. You can bring in everything to and to ClearBrief. But that’s how our users sort of think about those integrations with their case management system. So we do have some really exciting integrations coming up. I can’t announce them yet. But I really want to, but we are. Let’s just say that go ahead.

Greg Lambert 16:44
It’s just between us and few. They will.

Jacqueline Schafer 16:53
We, for example, one of the things that we currently do is we not only bring in your factual sources, but anytime you cite to a case or a statute, or regulation, we automatically display that. And so we have a partnership with Fastcase, that allows us to display case law, you don’t have to log into any of these tools to Fastcase or anything like that. We’ll just it just displays it automatically. So we’re bringing in even more legal content. That’s one of our or upcoming integrations that hopefully I can announce soon

Marlene Gebauer 17:24
Is that even if you don’t have a license for Fastcase. Correct. So get the access.

Jacqueline Schafer 17:31
Yeah, you still it’ll just pop right up. So that’s one of the also really popular things people do with with our tool is when you get a brief from opposing counsel, drag it in ClearBrief Does its AI analysis and any citation that they referenced, it will just display the law so you can read their brief, at the same time as you read the case or the statute. And I love that because I always had this moment of panic when I get opposing counsels writing where you’re like, Oh, my God, their case is airtight, like, we’re gonna lose everything is like, oh my god, they’ve laid it out. So well. And then you go and read what they’ve citing, like, oh, no, they just made that up. The case does not say that. Like, oh, wait a minute, the documents have nothing to do with what they’re arguing like, so the quicker you can get to that moment of relief of like checking the sources that’s, it’s helping with with our clients anxiety. Okay,

Marlene Gebauer 18:25
So I’m curious. I mean, given the fact that this is, you know, sort of new technology, it impacts workflow, it may, you know, impacts the way lawyers do their work, you know, how receptive have law firms been to adopting AI writing tools like ClearBrief? And what are the challenges that you’re seeing, as regarding adoption that that you’re working to overcome?

Jacqueline Schafer 18:51
Yeah, so I will say there has been kind of like a sea change in the last, you know, six months to a year where our initial customers, early customers were folks who were really on the, you know, the cutting edge and understood early on about technology and the advantage it gives them, and then I feel like most of the legal profession is waking up to that. And so it’s become way easier basically, to we do we show ClearBrief to a room of litigators. And they’re like, Okay, give it to me now. Like, I want it. I want to try it, I want to use it. Because what they’re hearing is that AI is going to transform legal, but often when they see products that are a little open ended, it’s sort of like, you can do anything with this AI, ask it anything, do anything. It’s too abstract for a lot of lawyers and litigators, who were like, look, I have my way that I do my writing. And I’m not going to like chat with a robot about it right now. You know, so, I think where we’ve succeeded in credit meeting this moment is we were ready because I started the company in 2020. So we’ve been working on AI we have four issued a AI patents that cover our unique technology like we were ready for this moment. So when they see ClearBrief, it’s not just a kind of blank slate of AI, it’s very tailored to the workflows that they have. So it feels comfortable in a way to them, it’s inward, we’ve put a lot of thought and effort into making it a part of what they already do, instead of AI is here change everything. That’s too overwhelming for most lawyers and most law firms. Now, I do see sometimes a bit of a gap between, especially at bigger firms, what the leadership of the firm maybe wants, versus the people who are in the trenches. So I do see, you know, the newer associates, the paralegals, we have tons of paralegal users and first year associate users of ClearBrief. And they love it, and they love being able to get access to new technology, if I could give one piece of advice, honestly, to the leaders of the law firms is by dragging your feet and like taking a long time to give your frontline associates access to AI. You are disadvantaging your firm. And honestly, their growth as new lawyers in a profession that is changing dramatically day by day. So the sooner you can get AI into their hands, let them experiment. Of course, it has to be a trusted tool, it has to have the proper security like there’s no question about that. But sitting back on the sidelines and waiting is going to hurt your for over the long term. So that’s that’s sort of where sometimes I see a little bit of a challenge.

Marlene Gebauer 21:33
Have any kind of arguments come up in terms of the billable hour? And how this would impact the billable hour? Has that been a roadblock?

Jacqueline Schafer 21:43
Yeah, so that’s so funny. So when I started fundraising for ClearBrief, I have raised you know, VC capital, one of the the 2% of women who raised VC capital, those two, six are really trading. Yay. Yes, the VCs have always asked about that. And what’s interesting to me is that I don’t really hear that from lawyers from the customers like, I don’t think that’s how they think about their work. They’re just some tasks and litigation that you just don’t want to do it, it doesn’t matter what you’re getting paid, or you know, like, I do not want to spend eight hours, just combing through like these massive, massive transcripts and trying to spot dates, and my eyes are tired, and I’m maybe missing things and missing dates. We our platform also does an instant table of authorities. It instantly compiles your exhibits based on your citations, so that like that that scramble that we were talking about earlier, where it’s just so stressful, like, I don’t care if I’m getting paid, you know, or if if I am billing, I could build eight hours doing a table of authorities by hand, I don’t want to do that. That is not how I want to spend my life, I can still build that time. If I do if I use AI to do something faster. I can still spend hours analyzing and actually like the best insights I usually find for my writing happen. When I’ve written the whole thing. Usually it actually happens after I actually, oh, yeah, I think for most people get those hours that you have, you know, in the final days before filing something you can, you can do a lot of really crisp rewrites, you can add some really great analysis, you’re still going to be able to bill, I think another interesting dynamic, I’ve pointed out, I’ve seen it happen a lot a big law, when the partner sends the draft to the paralegal to do the table of authorities to do the exhibits, they have to stop writing, they cannot bill that entire day sometimes takes like two days. Or if it’s a really big like motion for summary judgment, there’s a million exhibits and moving parts, it can take like a week to do this by hand. Now, if you know that they’re using AI, and that’ll take seconds to do that table of authorities, it will take seconds to pull your exhibits into a nice PDF for filing. You can keep writing and billing extra days. So that is an interesting dynamic that it doesn’t always shake out the way we think with AI.

Marlene Gebauer 24:10
It’s kind of a shift in how and how and where you, Bill. Exactly.

Greg Lambert 24:15
And I agree on the I do the same thing when I have arguments with my wife is about two days later, I figure out what I should have said was this.

Jacqueline Schafer 24:28
Okay, we have

Greg Lambert 24:30
No. This is how I’ve stayed married for 30 years, so is by not winning those. So you and you kind of touched on it just now. But I wanted to point out something that I’ve seen in your writing and heard in your talks and that is you’ve spoken about the need for lawyers to trust but verify when using AI tools like ClearBrief So do you mind expanding a little little bit about what you mean when when you tell groups of people about trusting but verifying the AI tools?

Jacqueline Schafer 25:07
Yeah, absolutely. So again, I think that there’s a, an interesting dynamic when when you use generative AI to write an entire paragraph or document for you, where we can sort of gloss over the output. Similar, I feel like should I struggle with this, when I review something that someone else has written, I often miss mistakes, when I’m reading something that someone else wrote. It’s just hard, it’s hard to catch those things. And so that really, that is the point of why we have citations in our legal documents is so that we don’t, you know, believe anything that’s put in in a legal document, unless we can check the source, scrutinize that source, validate it. So I think that there is an inherent sort of challenge with generated writing, if you’re going to actually use it for anything significant like filing it with the court or even giving it to a client as a memo or an analysis. Site checking has to become like, even more easy and just a part of every single person on the team’s routine. Because at any stage of the process, somebody might be using generative AI and inserting something into the document. And then you could wind up horribly embarrassed and above the law, right? Like you don’t want that to happen. So I think that’s part of the thoughtfulness really, behind ClearBrief. And its design is that even our generative AI, every single thing it’s generating, you can see and validate it, and make sure that it does actually say what you wanted to say. But it’s also easy to do that. So there’s other tools, like, I believe CoCounsel Does this where they will kind of like, open up a PDF of where that something that it generated has come from. And you have to go and you know, scroll and try to figure out where in the PDF, it said that. But the problem is the other people who are reviewing your work might not have access to that PDF, it might be in, you know, the eDiscovery system and the partner doesn’t have access, they don’t they don’t do that. Great like, that is really how we’ve built ClearBrief. So that all along the way, everyone who’s lays eyes on this document can see and scrutinize the source. And it has to be easy. Otherwise, it may not happen that level of scrutiny that you need when using generative AI.

Marlene Gebauer 27:31
So we we’ve talked a little bit about ClearBrief extensive capabilities. What are their pain points in legal writing? Are you looking to solve with AI right now? What’s on the horizon?

Jacqueline Schafer 27:42
Yeah, these are some good questions here. We have actually some really exciting features

Greg Lambert 27:51
We had the the AI write them.

Jacqueline Schafer 27:55
They’re quite good. So yes, we actually have some really big feature announcements coming soon. But basically, just to give a quick preview, that, you know, that instant chronology that I mentioned, there’s a lot of different things that you might want to do once you have the chronology of what happened in the case description of it. And the link to where the evidence is, there’s a lot of different legal tasks you might want to do with that vetted, you know, reviewed, accurate, you know, chronology. So we’re really building on that. And what’s cool about that feature is that you don’t need to know how to do anything really, in ClearBrief, you could just click a button, and it will give you a really, really helpful work product. So that’s kind of where we’re, where we’re headed. Our platform is it has a lot of different capabilities. We’re also building and expanding on our tools for paralegals, because paralegals are just absolutely, like overwhelmed and stressed to in the legal profession. And we’ve, what’s great is that we really develop our roadmap, based on what our customers are asking us for, we kind of hear enough of a consensus that everybody wants this new feature. So then that’s really what sets our vision and our roadmap there. Anything that we do, it’s tied to that concept of you can always see the source document. So also, one thing to note is like right now our customers are mostly litigators. But we do actually have trusts and estates folks who use ClearBrief, because of our hyperlinking or instant, you know, hyperlinks so that you could drag in all of your documents, let’s say your different trusts or things that you’ve prepared over time for a client and make like an organized clickable secure chart for that more they could download them themselves. So we’re trying to, yeah, think about how we can also better serve those, the corporate side of the firms that we work with

Greg Lambert 30:00
So Jackie, that we asked all of our guests our crystal ball question toward toward the end of the interview. So can I ask you to pull out your crystal ball peer into the future for us? And what kind of changes or challenges do you see on the horizon? We typically say the next two to five years, but I’m thinking maybe more six to nine months to maybe a year what? What kind of changes are you seeing on the horizon?

Jacqueline Schafer 30:30
Yeah, I think the biggest changes are going to be around how law firms train their teams. And there’s, you know, a changing of the guard that happens every, like decade, I think are where the leadership of, you know, our legal institutions, the law firms, the courts, the government, everything is changing. We’re having digital natives, millennials and beyond enter positions of leadership. They really want to see radical changes in how law firms are run and how our courts operate. We want to have our profession feel like it’s a modern profession. Yeah, I went to a really interesting conference a couple months ago, it was the appellate court clerk’s conference. And one of the speakers, Justice McCormack, she was talking about how the, she showed an image of a courthouse from, like, 100 years ago, and a courthouse of today. And she showed an image of a hospital 100 years ago and the hospital today, one looks the same, which is the courts.

Marlene Gebauer 31:42
So what’s wrong with this picture?

Jacqueline Schafer 31:46
You know, we can imagine a profession that is, you know, more responsive to the legal needs that people have. And I think there was, there was some discussion at Clio con, this happened, you know, last couple days. And I heard Jack Newton speech about there’s I think he said, There was like $3 trillion, check that check me on that have have sort of latent legal needs that are currently unmet. So I think what we’re going to see is that the changing of the guard is going to happen, there’s going to be technology embedded in every aspect of practicing law. And so what I think the leaders of today should be thinking about is how do we best empower our star law students? How do we best empower our support staff, our new associates all the way up to the partners to lead in this new profession and in embracing technology, versus just waiting and seeing what others are going to do? First, I think that is a mistake. Now is, this is like a really, really exciting sea change in legal. And we’re just starting to see, you know, what’s going to unfold in the next decade,

Greg Lambert 32:57
I like justice McCormick’s view, because that really does stand out. And you can, you can think about it, you can go through the, through a town, the Court Square still the same, the hospital on the edge of town is all of a sudden the modern miracle, a marvel in the in the city. So, yeah, I think we get things

Jacqueline Schafer 33:17
About that, you know, our system, you know, does still allow for that due process. And we know we have the ability to confront witnesses, you know, and there are things that are enduring, that should stay the same, but we need to also embrace modernity.

Greg Lambert 33:34
That that is so true. Well, Jacqueline, Schafer, CEO and founder of ClearBrief. Ai, I want to thank you very much for coming in. And joining us today, this has been really enjoyable.

Jacqueline Schafer 33:45
Thank you so much for having me. Great, thoughtful questions. And, you know, Thanks for exploring technology and legal products for for your audience.

Marlene Gebauer 33:53
And thank you to all of you, our audience for taking the time to listen to The Geek in Review podcast. If you enjoy the show, share it with a colleague, we’d love to hear from you. So reach out to us on social media. I can be found on LinkedIn at gave our M on Twitter. Oh, let me do that. Again. I can be found on LinkedIn. I gave our I’m on Twitter, and at m gay Bauer 66 on threads.

Greg Lambert 34:16
Commas matter in the law, commas matter. It and I can be reached on LinkedIn and at glambertpod on Twitter and glambertpod on threads. So Jacqueline, if somebody’s wanting to learn more, and reach out, where’s the best place to find you online?

Jacqueline Schafer 34:35
Well, they can actually just always email me at Jackie s@clearbrief.ai to get you know, a demo ClearBrief or check it out. You can also just go to the Microsoft Store. And you’ll find ClearBrief in the Microsoft app store and you can start using it and playing around with it today. And also I’m on LinkedIn in Twitter. And I post most often on LinkedIn.

Greg Lambert 34:59
So just how did how did our You searched not find out about the Microsoft Store thing.

Marlene Gebauer 35:02
Yeah. How did we not? I don’t know. No, no.

Jacqueline Schafer 35:07
Yeah. They just go right in and start. We make it easy for people to just try it out and start using it today. Very cool.

Marlene Gebauer 35:16
That is cool. And as always, the music you hear on the show is from Jerry David DeCicca. Thank you, Jerry.

Greg Lambert 35:25
Thanks, Jerry. All right, Marlene, I will talk to you later.

Marlene Gebauer 35:28
Okay, bye bye.

Jacqueline Schafer 35:29