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Quinten Steenhuis brings a builder’s mindset to legal innovation, rooted in early Indymedia activism where scavenged hardware became community infrastructure. That scrappy origin story carries through a dozen years of eviction defense at Greater Boston Legal Services, with a steady focus on tools that help people solve problems without waiting for a savior in a suit. Along the way, Quinten also lived the unglamorous side of mission tech, keeping systems funded, supported, and usable when budgets get tight and priorities get loud.

The conversation then jumps to Suffolk Law’s approach to generative AI education, including a required learning track for first-year students. Quinten frames the track as foundational training, then points to a deeper bench of follow-on courses and the LIT Lab clinic where students build with real tools, real partners, and real stakes. The throughline stays consistent, exposure alone solves nothing, so Suffolk puts reps, projects, and practice behind the syllabus.

A standout segment tackles the “vaporware semester” problem, where student-built prototypes fade out once finals end. The LIT Lab fights that decay by narrowing tool choices, standardizing around DocAssemble, and supervising work with a clinic-style model, staff stay close, quality stays high, and maintenance stays owned. Projects ship through CourtFormsOnline, with ongoing updates, volunteer support, and a commitment to keep public-facing legal help online for the long haul.

Then the episode turns toward agentic workflows, with examples from Quinten’s consulting work in Virginia and Oregon. One project uses voice-based intake to screen for eligibility, confirm location and income, gather the story in a person’s own words, and route matters into usable categories. Another project speeds bar referral by replacing slow human triage with faster classification and better user interaction patterns, fewer walls of typing, more guided choices, more yes-or-no steps, and fewer dead ends.

In the closing stretch, Quinten shares the sources feeding his learning loop, LinkedIn, Legal Services Corporation’s Innovations conference, the LSNTAP mailing list, podcasts, and Bob Ambrogi’s LawSites, plus the occasional spicy Reddit detour. The crystal ball lands on a thorny challenge for both academia and practice, training lawyers for judgment and verification when AI outputs land near-correct most of the time, then fail in the exact moment nobody expects. Quinten’s bottom line feels blunt and optimistic at once, safe workflows matter, and the public already uses general chat tools for legal help, so the legal system needs harm-reducing alternatives that work.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Links (as shared by Quinten):
Transcript

Continue Reading From Legal Aid to LIT Lab: Quinten Steenhuis and the Builder’s Approach to AI

Cat Moon and Mark Williams return to The Geek in Review wearing two hats, plus one tiara. The conversation starts at Vanderbilt’s inaugural AI Governance Symposium, where “governance” means wildly different things depending on who shows up. Judges, policy folks, technologists, in-house leaders, and law firm teams all brought separate definitions, then bumped into each other during generous hallway breaks. Those collisions led to new research threads and fresh coursework, which feels like the real product of a symposium, beyond any single panel.

One surprise thread moved from wonky sidebar to dinner-table topic fast, AI’s energy appetite and the rise of data centers as a local political wedge issue. Mark describes needing to justify the topic months earlier, then watching the news cycle catch up until no justification was needed. Greg connects the dots to Texas, where energy access, on-site generation, and data-center buildouts keep lawyers busy. The point lands, AI governance lives upstream from prompts and policies, down in grids, zoning fights, and infrastructure decisions.

From there, the episode pivots to training, law students, and the messy transition from “don’t touch AI” to “your platforms already baked AI into the buttons.” Mark shares how students now return from summer programs having seen tools like Harvey, even if firms still look like teams building the plane during takeoff. Cat frames the real need as basic, course-by-course guidance so students gain confidence instead of fear. Greg adds a perfect artifact from the academic arms race, Exam Blue Book sales jumping because handwritten exams keep AI out of finals, while AI still helps study through tools like NotebookLM quiz generation.

Governance talk gets practical fast, procurement, contract language, standards, and the sneaky problem of feature drift inside approved tools. Mark flags how smaller firms face a brutal constraint problem, limited budget, limited time, one shot to pick from hundreds of products, and no dedicated procurement bench. ISO 42001 shows up as a shorthand signal for vendor maturity, though standards still lag behind modern generative systems. Marlene brings the day-to-day friction, outside counsel guidelines, client consent, and repeated approvals slow adoption even after a tool passes internal reviews. Greg nails the operational pain, vendors ship new capabilities weekly, sometimes pushing teams from “closed universe” to “open internet” without much warning.

The closing crystal ball lands on collaboration and humility. Cat argues for a future shaped by co-creation across firms, schools, and students, not a demand-and-defend standoff about “practice-ready” graduates. Mark zooms out to the broader shift in the knowledge-work apprenticeship model, fewer beginner reps, earlier specialization pressure, and new ownership models knocking on the door in places like Tennessee. Along the way, Cat previews Women + AI Summit 2.0, with co-created content, travel stipends for speakers, workshops built around take-home artifacts, plus a short story fiction challenge to write women into the future narrative, tiara energy optional but encouraged.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LINKS:

CAT MOON
Vanderbilt AI Law Lab
VAILL Substack
Women + AI Summit
Practising Law Institute (PLI)
American Arbitration Association (AAA)
Legal Technology Hub

MARK WILLIAMS
Hotshot Legal
The Information
Understanding AI (Timothy B. Lee)
One Useful Thing (Ethan Mollick)
SemiAnalysis
ISO/IEC 42001 standard overview
EU AI Act (Regulation (EU) 2024/1689)
Chip War (Chris Miller, publisher page)

Transcript

Continue Reading Tiara Time and Data Center Politics: Vanderbilt’s AI Governance Playbook with Cat Moon and Mark Williams

This week, we welcome back Kara Peterson and Rich DiBona of Descrybe to talk about the company’s rapid growth and its expanding role in legal research. Since their last appearance, Descrybe has not only built out new tools but also entered academia by joining the curriculum of more than 350 universities around the world. Kara reflects on her earlier career in legal education and how this new partnership feels like coming full circle. Together, she and Rich share how Descrybe is positioning itself to fill the gap left by other providers while keeping affordability and accessibility at the core of their mission.

A major highlight of the discussion is Descrybe’s unique approach to legal citators. Unlike traditional tools that often provide a blunt “treatment” of a case, Descrybe’s citator allows issue-level analysis and even introduces a “backwards citator.” This means researchers can see not only how later courts interpreted a case but also how the judges who wrote the opinion cited and treated earlier authorities. Rich explains the technical challenges involved in training their system on 30 million citations, while Kara describes how these innovations give researchers new storytelling and analytical power when building arguments.

The conversation also dives into the Legal Research Toolkit, Descrybe’s paid tier that offers a collection of tools designed for professionals who need more advanced case law analysis. While the company continues to provide free access to its core research platform, the toolkit adds features such as issue explorers and advanced citator functions. Kara emphasizes the company’s deliberately simple pricing model, which prioritizes trust and accessibility. At just $10 a month for non-commercial use and $20 for commercial users, the service is priced more like everyday software than the traditional high-cost legal research platforms.

The discussion moves into broader industry trends, including the wave of acquisitions by major players like Thomson Reuters and Clio. Kara and Rich note that while consolidation is reshaping the market, it also leaves space for new entrants to innovate. With data becoming the most valuable commodity in legal tech, Descrybe is building curated and clean datasets across statutes, regulations, state constitutions, and even attorney general opinions. Both guests highlight the importance of accuracy, data hygiene, and minimizing hallucinations, explaining how their closed-system approach helps ensure that results remain grounded in actual legal documents rather than speculative AI outputs.

Finally, the episode touches on ethics, recognition, and the future. Descrybe recently won the Anthem Award for Ethical AI, a nod to its safeguards against hallucinations and commitment to transparent data practices. At ILTACon, the team found themselves impressing not only potential clients but also leaders from larger companies who were curious about how such a lean startup was able to achieve so much. Looking ahead, Kara predicts the pace of change in legal technology will only accelerate, challenging law firms to keep up, while Rich warns of the commoditization of AI capabilities and stresses the importance of staying ahead of the curve. Together, they bring both humor and insight, reminding listeners that the legal research market is shifting quickly and that affordability, accuracy, and ethics will shape its next chapter.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]

Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript:

Continue Reading The Cytator Strikes Back: Kara Peterson & Rich DiBona On Descrybe’s Fresh Take on Legal Research

Vanderbilt Law School recently launched an exciting new initiative called the Vanderbilt AI Legal Lab (VAILL) to explore how artificial intelligence can transform legal services and access to justice. In this episode, we spoke with VAILL’s leadership – Cat Moon,(👑) Director of Innovation at Vanderbilt’s Program on Law and Innovation (PoLI), and Mark Williams, Associate Director for Collections and Innovation at the Massey Law Library – about their vision for this pioneering lab. 

VAILL’s mission is to harness AI to expand access to legal knowledge and services, with a particular focus on leveraging generative AI to improve legal service delivery. As Moon described, VAILL aims to experiment, collaborate widely, and build solutions to realize AI’s potential in the legal domain. The lab will leverage Vanderbilt’s cross-disciplinary strengths, drawing on experts in computer science, engineering, philosophy, and other fields to inform their ethically-grounded, human-centered approach.

VAILL is prioritizing partnerships across sectors – courts, law firms, legal aid organizations, alternative providers, and others – to test ideas and develop prototype AI applications that solve real legal needs. For instance, they plan to co-create solutions with Legal Aid of North Carolina’s Innovation Lab to expand access to justice. Moon explained that generative AI presents solutions for some legal challenges, so VAILL hopes to match developing technological capabilities with organizations’ needs.

Ethics are foundational to VAILL’s work. Students will learn both practical uses of AI in law practice as well as broader policy and social implications. As Williams emphasized, beyond core professional responsibility issues, VAILL aims to empower students to lead in shaping AI’s societal impacts through deeper engagement with questions around data, access, and algorithms. Teaching ethical, creative mindsets is VAILL’s ultimate opportunity.

VAILL will leverage the resources and expertise of Vanderbilt’s law librarians to critically assess new AI tools from their unique perspective. Williams noted that the lab sees law students as a “risk free” testing ground for innovations, while also equipping them with adaptable learning capabilities to keep pace with AI’s rapid evolution. Rather than viewing AI as a differentiator, VAILL’s goal is producing legally-skilled innovators ready to thrive amidst ongoing change.

Vanderbilt’s AI Legal Lab represents an exciting development in exploring AI’s legal impacts. By emphasizing human-centered, ethical approaches and collaborations, VAILL aims to pioneer solutions that expand access to legal knowledge and services for all. We look forward to seeing the innovative applications VAILL develops at the intersection of law and AI.

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ |  ⁠Spotify⁠ | YouTube

⁠⁠⁠⁠Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

Continue Reading TGIR Ep. 228 – Cat Moon and Mark Williams Launch the New Vanderbilt AI Law Lab (VAILL)

This week on The Geek in Review podcast Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert featured guests Colin Levy, Ashley Carlisle, and Dorna Moini discussing Levy’s recently published book “Handbook of Legal Tech.” Levy edited the book and contributors included Moini, Carlisle’s CEO, Tony Thai, and many more legal technology experts. The book provides an overview of key technologies transforming the legal industry like automation, AI, blockchain, document automation, CLM, and more.

Levy shared how he ended up editing the book, describing it as “herding cats” to get busy experts to contribute chapters. He wanted the book to serve as a comprehensive introduction to legal tech, with each chapter written by leaders in the various subject matter areas. Carlisle and Moini explained their motivations for taking time out of their demanding schedules to write chapters – spreading knowledge to help move the industry forward and impart insights from their work.

The guests reflected on their favorite parts of the experience. Levy enjoyed bringing together the community and seeing different perspectives. Carlisle appreciated being able to consolidate information on contract lifecycle management. Moini was proud to contribute right before having a baby. Lambert highlighted Levy juggling this book and writing his own solo book on legal tech stories from the front lines.

The guests offered advice to law students and lawyers looking to learn about and leverage legal tech. Carlisle emphasized starting with an open mind, intentional research, and reading widely from legal tech thought leaders. Moini recommended thinking big but starting small with iterative implementation. Levy stressed knowing your purpose and motivations to stay focused amidst the vast array of options.

Lambert prompted the guests to identify low-hanging fruit legal technologies those new to practice should focus on. Levy pointed to document automation and AI. Moini noted that intake and forms digitization can be a first step for laggards. Carlisle advised starting small with discrete tasks before tackling advanced tools.

For their forward-looking predictions, Carlisle saw AI hype fading but increasing tech literacy, Levy predicted growing focus on use and analysis of data as AI advances, and Moini forecasted a rise in online legal service delivery. The guests are excited about spreading awareness through the book to help transform the legal industry.

LINKS:

Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ |  ⁠Spotify⁠ | YouTube (NEW!)

Contact Us: 

Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@gebauerm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@glambert⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Threads: @glambertpod or @gebauerm66

Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com

Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠

Transcript:Continue Reading Colin Levy, Dorna Moini, and Ashley Carlisle on Herding Cats and Heralding Change: The Inside Scoop on the “Handbook of Legal Tech”