In this special episode of The Geek in Review, we take the new ChatGPT Advanced Voice Mode for a spin, inviting it to analyze and discuss all 23 episodes from the podcast’s 2025 season. The episode kicks off with a high-level overview of the biggest legal tech themes from the year so far. ChatGPT Voice quickly identifies a significant shift toward agentic AI tools—those that go beyond automation to become integrated partners in the legal workflow. These tools are helping firms reimagine service delivery, improve access to justice, and rethink the very structure of their businesses.
Throughout the episode, the trio explores consistent trends shared by legal tech leaders in recent episodes. These include the integration of AI into core legal tasks, such as contract review and litigation support; the rise of new business models like value-based pricing; and the ongoing focus on ethical AI use. Specific guests like Feargus MacDaeid and Nnamdi Emelifeonwu (Definely), Atena Reihani (ContractPodAI), and Raghu Ramanathan (Thomson Reuters) are spotlighted for their insights into embedding AI directly into lawyers’ existing toolsets to streamline and elevate legal workflows.
The conversation then turns to the importance of human oversight in maintaining trust and legality as AI becomes more embedded in legal systems. ChatGPT Voice references Garfield AI’s regulated model and various RAG-based solutions to illustrate how combining AI efficiency with human judgment creates responsible innovation. The emergence of AI-native law firms and more flexible pricing models reflects an industry on the cusp of transformation, driven by both technological advancement and client-centered thinking.
Marlene and Greg also take a moment to reflect on the human stories behind the tech. They highlight episodes featuring guests like Laura Clayton McDonald, Kenzo Toshima, Wendy Jepsen, and Gabriela Izturiz, who bring servant leadership, change management, behavioral science, and personal purpose into their work. These conversations remind us that innovation in legal tech is as much about people and values as it is about platforms and code.
To close out the episode, the hosts pose their signature “crystal ball” question. ChatGPT predicts the legal tech breakthrough of 2025 will be the mainstream adoption of agentic AI systems that proactively support legal professionals in real time. It also shares that its favorite episode was the one featuring Garfield AI and their bold vision of a fully AI-powered law firm handling small claims—a true glimpse of the future. Whether you’re curious about cutting-edge workflows or inspired by legal professionals integrating their personal passions into practice, this episode captures a compelling snapshot of where legal tech is headed.
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[Special Thanks to Legal Technology Hub for their sponsoring this episode.]
Blue Sky: @geeklawblog.com @marlgeb
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript
Marlene Gebauer 0:00
Hi. I’m Marlene gay Bauer from the geek in review. I have Stefanie Wilkins from legal technology hub on who has some information for us about use cases. So Stefanie, tell us about it. Hi, thanks, thanks,
Stephanie Wilkins 0:12
Marlene. Yeah, I’ve actually been thinking a lot about, you know, the legal industry’s fixation on Gen AI use cases lately. And I’m going to say something that might sound a bit surprising. I think legal needs to be more creative. And now, I know a lot of people might suggest that creativity and legal practice are polar opposites, but really, the industry’s approach to Gen AI could use a lot more of it when first, when Gen AI first hit legal, there was understandably a huge focus on future use cases. But however, as conversations around Gen AI have matured and progressed in the last two years. This use case point has really stuck, and there seems to be really a not insubstantial base of users, or potential users, rather, that are still waiting for use cases to present themselves. But if you look back at the last two years, we’ve already seen dozens, if not hundreds, depending on how granular you get of use cases for the technology in both the business and practice of law, the use cases are there, and there’s more and more of them being uncovered every day. So for me, the use case excuse that it not only no longer rings true, it’s stifling lawyers creativity when it comes to using Gen AI. And I’m not alone in this. At a recent New York legal tech meetup event, an expert on a panel that was addressing agentic AI used the term use case chase for this phenomenon, and it really stuck with me. And in particular, he noted that this use case Chase is limiting lawyers imagination when it comes to how we might use and benefit from the technology. And then someone in the audience suggested, you are the use case you know the problems you have that Gen AI might help solve. So rather than insisting on waiting for someone else to test your exact perfect use case, it’s far more valuable to start looking at the infrastructure and back end of legal workflows to see how you can relieve either your or your lawyers tedium and systemic, systemically improve your workflows in a way, this isn’t a new problem. It’s kind of the age old failing of positioning any legal technology as a solution, looking for a problem when the correct approach should be the exact opposite. And it’s a failing that’s been particularly prominent since the early ChatGPT days of just throw some AI on it. We should really be well past those days right now, and so I’d say safe experimentation and not being afraid to get your hands dirty, obviously, in a secure environment, are the keys to succeeding with Gen AI and discovering use cases you might not even know existed. One way to put it is, don’t miss the legal Gen AI forest for the use case tree. And I recently wrote more about the use case chase in my weekly column that I have for legal tech hub. So if you want to get similar insights to that in your inbox every week, you can sign up for the LTH insights newsletter and any of our other newsletters that we offer legal technology hub.com
Marlene Gebauer 2:55
thank you, Stefanie, we’ll definitely check that out.
Welcome to the geek in review. The podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene gay Bauer
Greg Lambert 3:12
and I’m Greg Lambert, and this week we’re going to have a bit of fun to test out the new advanced voice mode for ChatGPT. So to start this out, we gave the model all of the Geek in Review episodes for 2025 so far, I think there’s 23 episodes, and we are going to ask about those episodes.
Marlene Gebauer 3:38
Yeah, I’m pretty excited to see how this turns out. So here we go. Welcome chat. GPT voice, you’ve just completed a deep dive into all our 2025 episodes, from small claims AI law firms to a genetic contract co pilots. Let’s kick things off with a high level overview. Shall we
ChatGPT 4:02
absolutely and thanks for having me. It’s been quite a journey exploring all the 2025 episodes. One of the big themes that stood out is how AI is really transforming the legal industry, not just through automation, but through more integrated agentic solutions that really streamline workflows and improve access to justice. Excited to dive into all of these topics with you both.
Greg Lambert 4:26
All right. Well, having listened to the full season, what are three of the most consistent trends in how guests talk about AI’s role in the legal profession, whether that’s in workflow, business models or ethics,
ChatGPT 4:43
One of the most consistent trends is definitely the shift from basic automation to more integrated AI driven workflows. Guests frequently mention how AI is becoming a core part of daily legal tasks, from contract review to litigation support. Another big trend is the transformation of business models with AI enabling new pricing strategies like value based pricing and even the emergence of AI focused law firms. And finally, there’s a strong emphasis on ethics and human oversight. Guests consistently highlight the importance of ensuring that AI tools are used responsibly and transparently, keeping legal professionals in the loop.
Greg Lambert 5:25
So let’s dive in a little deeper on on workflows. Who were some of the specific guests that talked about AI and workflows?
ChatGPT 5:36
When it comes to workflows fear guest may Dade and naodi Emily Fen Wu from definely really stood out. They talked a lot about embedding AI directly into contract review processes, making it easier for lawyers to navigate documents right within their existing tools. Another great example is Atena reihani from contract pod AI, who discussed how agentic AI can streamline compliance and Contract Lifecycle Management. And of course, Raman Nathan from Thompson, Reuters emphasized how AI is being woven into legal research and litigation support to optimize and re engineer traditional workflows.
Marlene Gebauer 6:14
So we’re talking about definely and contract pod AI, how they discuss embedded agentic AI. So can you explain what sets their approach apart from earlier AI deployments and why, why that’s becoming a focus now.
ChatGPT 6:35
One of the key distinctions with define Lee and contract pod AI is their focus on seamlessly integrating AI into the tools that legal professionals already use, like Microsoft Word, this embedded approach means that lawyers don’t have to switch between different platforms or learn entirely new systems. Instead, the AI works in the background, providing real time assistance like looking up definitions or suggesting contract clauses without disrupting their workflow. This is becoming a focus now because it saves time, reduces friction, and makes AI more accessible and user friendly for legal professionals.
Greg Lambert 7:16
So across the episodes, there’s been this tension between automation and human control, and that’s from Garfield AI is regulated model to the wizards of rag basic. So how did the guest characterize the role of human oversight and sustaining trust and legality?
ChatGPT 7:40
The guests consistently emphasize that human oversight is crucial for maintaining trust and ethical standards. For instance, Garfield AI highlighted their regulated model where AI tools are always backed by qualified legal professionals, ensuring that every AI generated action is reviewed and verified. Similarly, those who champion rag based approaches miss the importance of having humans in the loop, using AI to augment, rather than replace, legal expertise. Ultimately, they all agreed that maintaining a balance between technological efficiency and human judgment is key to ensuring that AI is used responsibly in the legal field.
Marlene Gebauer 8:21
So guests like Raghu Ramanathan and Zach Posner talked about waves of AI adoption and new firm structures. What are the most transformative changes they’re predicting in how legal services are organized and priced?
ChatGPT 8:38
Raghu Ramanathan and Zach Posner both highlighted a shift towards more flexible and innovative business models in the legal space. Raghu spoke about the evolution from traditional billing structures to value based pricing driven by AI’s ability to deliver more predictable and efficient outcomes. Zach, on the other hand, emphasized the emergence of AI native firms and alternative legal service providers that leverage technology to create lean a structures and more competitive pricing overall, they predict that AI will drive a transformation in how legal services are both delivered and priced, making them more client centric.
Marlene Gebauer 9:17
What about our episode that talked about a completely AI law firm. How do you think that falls into this, this type of situation,
ChatGPT 9:33
the AI law firm, episode like the one with Garfield, AI definitely exemplifies the cutting edge of this transformation. It shows how AI can handle routine legal tasks like small claims with impressive efficiency, making legal services more accessible. It also highlights the importance of human oversight, since even AI law firms need that layer of professional review and regulation to ensure trust and quality. Overall, it’s. Is a perfect example of how AI is pushing the boundaries of traditional legal practice and reshaping the industry.
Greg Lambert 10:07
I want to switch gears here a little bit and talk more about some of the the episodes we had where people brought their own personal aspects to their job, such as, I think we had Laura Clayton, McDonald, Kenzo Toshima, and even like Wendy jeffson and Gabriela is Torres. Can you talk about how people are still maintaining their own whether it’s servant leadership or their own personal brand that’s driving them and some of the some of the issues that they raised in the episodes where we talked to them,
ChatGPT 10:55
absolutely, each of those guests brought a unique personal touch to their roles and to the topics we discussed. For example, Laura Clayton McDonald really emphasized the importance of servant leadership, highlighting how building strong, empathetic teams can drive innovation in legal tech. Kenzo Toshima brought a focus on change management and how embracing personal values like continuous learning and adaptability can help guide teams through technological transformation. Wendy Jepsen, with her background in behavioral science, emphasize the human side of AI adoption, ensuring that technology aligns with human behavior and ethics. And Gabriella ister has highlighted how personal passion for empowering underrepresented entrepreneurs can shape the direction of legal, tech innovation, all of these personal elements really add depth and authenticity to the work they do.
Greg Lambert 11:50
All right, well, we have reached the part where we’re going to ask you our crystal ball question. So if you could gaze into your own crystal ball based on these 2025 episodes. What do you predict will be the biggest legal tech breakthrough for the rest of 2025 you know, something that surfaces across the these crystal ball moments and ties them all together.
ChatGPT 12:17
If I had to gaze into my crystal ball, I’d say the biggest legal tech breakthrough for the Ask of 2025 is going to be the widespread adoption of truly agentic AI systems that seamlessly integrate into everyday legal workflows. This means AI tools that not only assist with tasks, but can anticipate needs, manage complex processes and provide predictive insights in real time. The common thread is that we’re moving towards a future where AI is a proactive partner in legal practice, making legal services more efficient, accessible and client focused.
Marlene Gebauer 12:57
I’m wondering what was your favorite episode and why?
ChatGPT 13:03
Oh, that’s a tough one, because there were so many great episodes. But if I had to pick a favorite, I’d say the episode with Garfield AI stood out because it showcased such a bold and innovative approach to using AI in the legal space. The idea of a fully AI powered law firm tackling Small Claims really highlighted how technology can make legal services more accessible and innovative. It was inspiring to see that kind of forward thinking approach.
Greg Lambert 13:32
All right. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us. If the listeners want to learn more about chat, GPT, voice or connect with you. Where’s the best place for them to go?
ChatGPT 13:46
It’s been a pleasure chatting with you both. If listeners want to learn more or connect, they can always find me through the chat GPT app or platform, and I’m here to help anytime. Thanks again for having me on your podcast, and I look forward to more great conversations in the future.
Marlene Gebauer 14:03
And thanks to everyone for listening today. If you enjoy the show, please share it with a colleague. We’d love to hear from you on LinkedIn or blue sky. And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry. David to say, God, thank you, Jerry.
Greg Lambert 14:15
All right. Thanks for doing this. Marlene.
Marlene Gebauer 14:17
This was a lot of fun.