In this special year-end episode of The Geek in Review, Greg Lambert takes listeners on a unique journey through the past year’s 50 episodes, all with the help of Google’s NotebookLM audio overview tool. Inspired by Josh Kubicki of the Brainyiacs Newsletter, Greg experiments with this cutting-edge AI tool to synthesize and discuss the key themes, guests, and topics covered throughout 2024. The result is an innovative meta-conversation between Greg and AI-generated co-hosts, offering insights into the future of law and legal technology.
Key Themes from 2024:
The episodes this year highlighted critical shifts in the legal landscape, from the integration of generative AI to the rise of client-centric practices. Technology’s impact on efficiency, mental health, and the evolving role of lawyers emerged as recurrent topics. Discussions also included the push for ethical AI adoption, flat-fee models, and the importance of balancing professional and personal lives, particularly in the “Love and Legal Tech” series. NotebookLM reflected on these trends, offering a synthesized perspective on how the legal industry is adapting to innovation.
Generative AI and Legal Tech:
Generative AI dominated discussions, with guests exploring its transformative potential and the skills needed to leverage it effectively. While some feared job displacement, most viewed AI as an augmentation tool, enabling lawyers to focus on higher-value tasks. Leaders like Dr. Megan Ma and Conrad Everhard shared groundbreaking projects, such as an M&A negotiation simulator, exemplifying AI’s capabilities. The conversation underscored the necessity for prompt engineering skills and ethical considerations in AI deployment.
Data Management, Security, and Transparency:
The importance of robust data management and security was a consistent theme, with experts like Kelly Griswold emphasizing it as a foundational business function. Conversations also explored “garbage in, garbage out” scenarios, the need for explainable AI, and maintaining client trust through transparency. These discussions highlighted how firms must prioritize governance to ensure responsible and effective AI use.
Collaboration, Social Impact, and Access to Justice:
The legal tech community’s collaborative spirit shone through in initiatives like Baker Donelson’s Legal Design Lab and Tom Martin’s LawDroid, which aim to make legal services more accessible. Guests celebrated the social impact of innovative tools designed to reduce barriers to justice and foster inclusivity. These efforts reflect a broader commitment to using technology to address systemic inequities in the legal system.
Looking Ahead:
Wrapping up the year, Greg revisits the podcast’s hallmark “Crystal Ball” question, noting common predictions for the next two to five years. From AI’s continued evolution to shifts in pricing models and the rise of emotional intelligence in leadership, the future of law promises to be dynamic. This episode not only recaps a transformative year but also sets the stage for the challenges and opportunities ahead.
Tune in to this engaging recap as Greg Lambert merges legal innovation with AI technology to reflect on an extraordinary year for The Geek in Review. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube
Blue Sky: @glambertpod @marlgeb
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
TRANSCRIPT
Greg Lambert 0:00
Welcome to The Geek in Review. The podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Greg Lambert, and this week I’m going solo, because I’m trying something a little bit different for our year end episode. And before I begin, first of all, I want to thank Josh Kubicki, the brains behind the brainiacs newsletter, for inspiring me to try this little trick out. So undoubtedly, you’ve probably run across the notebook LLM tool that Google created that has an audio overview that takes information that you feed it and creates a podcast style review of that information. Well, Josh pointed out that there is a new update to notebook LLMs audio overview where you can actually interact with the podcast host that that they create. So I fed notebook LLM the transcripts for all of the episodes of The Geek and review for 2024 now there were 51 episodes, and I uploaded 50 of those, which was the max number that notebook LLM would allow me to do. So I actually cut out one, which was a repeat one from one that my firm did. As this is truly just the geek and review. So the 50 that that were in there, I’m going to edit some of the audio here. So it’s I’m going to take out some of the long pauses that happen in places. And I’m also going to kind of edit where when I click on the join button to have the host stop talking and talk to me and make it sound a little more smoothly than than it is, just mostly for the editing purposes. So just want you to know this is not really a true back and forth style and discussion. And I think as the notebook LM tool gets things going, this will be better. But right now what happens is, once notebook LLM answers my questions, it really wants to get back to discussing and getting back on the topic from its original output once it’s answered my question. So that being said, let’s jump in again. Remember, I’ve given it all 50 of my episodes. I’m going to jump in and ask it some questions. So let’s see how it goes. All
NotebookLM Male 2:35
right, so we’re diving deep into the future of law today. We’ve got a whole bunch of articles and expert opinions to look at. We’re talking AI revolutions, changing client demands, even a little bit about, you know, how lawyers are doing, like, mentally and emotionally. It is really
NotebookLM Woman 2:50
interesting how this all fits together. You know, we’ve got insights from lawyers, legal tech folks, even law librarians. Yeah, it’s like the legal world is at this crossroads, you
Greg Lambert 3:00
know, all right, so I’m Greg Lambert. I’m one of the CO hosts from the geek and review, and I wanted to talk to you about the 50 episodes. So what were some of the key themes that you heard after listening to all 50 episodes? That’s
NotebookLM Woman 3:15
a fantastic question, and it’s great to hear from you. Greg, yeah, it’s like we have a special guest on our podcast. Looking back, a few themes really stood out across those 50 episodes. Okay, let’s unpack this one. Big One is how much technology is changing the legal world. Yeah, and not just AI. Even though that is huge, exactly everything from data management to client communication,
NotebookLM Male 3:35
I was noticing that there was a real push for more efficiency, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 3:38
right, and also a big shift towards putting clients first. What do you mean? Well, clients are demanding more value, more transparency, oh yeah, with pricing
NotebookLM Male 3:47
and things exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 3:48
And a lot of those guests talked about flat fee models.
NotebookLM Male 3:52
Oh yeah. I remember that from one of our sources too. Another theme was how much pressure lawyers remember. Oh yeah, the mental and emotional toll is something we can’t ignore. So
NotebookLM Woman 4:01
things like brain based coaching, that was a recurring topic, yeah. So
NotebookLM Male 4:05
helping the lawyers adapt to all this change, absolutely. So
Greg Lambert 4:08
I wanted to jump in there. We did the love and legal tech series early in the year, where we had couples that worked in the legal tech industry. So looking at the love and legal tech series. What? What stood out to you there?
NotebookLM Male 4:23
That’s a great question. Greg, yeah, we love that series. It was super interesting thinking
NotebookLM Woman 4:27
about those love and legal tech episodes. A few things really stood out. Okay, let’s unpack this. One of the most fascinating aspects was how these couples navigated their personal and professional lives like
NotebookLM Male 4:38
they were always on. You know, work and life kind of blurred together exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 4:42
And it seems like for the most part, they really leaned into that. Yeah, they made it work. Many of them talked about the advantages of being able to brainstorm ideas in real time. Oh,
NotebookLM Male 4:52
yeah, like bouncing ideas off of each other at the dinner table exactly,
NotebookLM Woman 4:55
and how they could cover for each other when family matters popped up. So like a true partner. Ship, both at home and work. And it was interesting how many of them met through work?
NotebookLM Male 5:04
Oh, yeah, it’s like the legal tech industry is a breeding ground for love. It really does seem that way. And we heard from a few that were surprised to learn that they were working together,
NotebookLM Woman 5:13
right? Some couples kept their marriage a secret at work for a while. It’s like
NotebookLM Male 5:16
they wanted to keep their professional and personal lives separate. You know? Well,
Greg Lambert 5:20
one of the couples discussed what they described as work life integration. Do you mind elaborating on what they meant by this? Yeah, it’s
NotebookLM Male 5:29
a term we heard a few times, and it’s definitely worth exploring. When a
NotebookLM Woman 5:33
couples talked about work life integration, it wasn’t about balancing two separate things. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 5:37
it’s not like, you know, nine to five work then five to whenever home,
NotebookLM Woman 5:41
right? It was more work and home lives blended together like
NotebookLM Male 5:44
they weren’t trying to keep them totally separate, but almost a single unit,
NotebookLM Woman 5:47
exactly. And this was particularly interesting when thinking about couples in the same field,
NotebookLM Male 5:52
right? They weren’t just co workers, they were also life partners. And
NotebookLM Woman 5:55
because of that, work discussions often spilled into personal time and vice versa, like they
NotebookLM Male 6:00
could talk about a work problem while making dinner,
NotebookLM Woman 6:02
for example, and that’s what really stood out. It was a seamless flow between the two. One
NotebookLM Male 6:06
couple said they’d be talking about family and work issues in the same conversation. It
NotebookLM Woman 6:10
really does show how intertwined everything can become. Yeah, so
NotebookLM Male 6:14
it’s less about separation and more about like, combining the two. That
NotebookLM Woman 6:17
said some couples found that having separate personas was a helpful way to manage things. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 6:22
it’s like they had a work version and a home version of themselves. That
NotebookLM Woman 6:25
way they could be strategic about work during work hours.
Greg Lambert 6:28
So what specific couples talked about that? Can you, can you give some examples of where they had a different persona at work versus at home? That’s
NotebookLM Male 6:37
a great question. Greg, it’s a really interesting detail.
NotebookLM Woman 6:40
Yeah, let’s dive into some specific examples of those couples.
NotebookLM Male 6:43
So Kate Boyd and Ryan mcleed of sent the advisors. They mentioned it, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 6:47
right, they said that they have a work persona and a personal persona. They try to keep those separate so the work stuff doesn’t spell in exactly. They made it a point to keep those two areas of their lives distinct.
NotebookLM Male 6:58
And you know, they’re together most of the time, so it’s probably pretty helpful for them. And
NotebookLM Woman 7:02
it wasn’t just wasn’t just them, Cassie verdevec and Alex McDonald. They also touched on this.
NotebookLM Male 7:06
Oh, yeah, they said that they had to put up a united front at work,
NotebookLM Woman 7:09
right? They were jointly running a team, so they had to present a united front. But at home, they could actually vent to each other about work, which is, you know, something you can’t usually do with your co workers. Yeah, that’s
NotebookLM Male 7:20
a great example of how their personas shifted between work and home.
Greg Lambert 7:23
Yeah, I think you covered that pretty well. Let’s, let’s skip to another topic, and that’s, I think generative AI and legal Tech was probably the hottest topic. So what themes emerged regarding the rise and impact of generative AI in the legal field this year.
NotebookLM Woman 7:41
That’s a great point to pivot to. Greg, yeah, we’ve definitely been hearing about AI everywhere. So let’s unpack the themes that emerged regarding generative AI. Okay, here’s where it gets really interesting. First, there was a lot of excitement and hype around AI, yeah, especially at the
NotebookLM Male 7:55
beginning of the year, but also
Unknown Speaker 7:56
a lot of cynicism too, as we saw
NotebookLM Male 7:58
right is like people were either super excited or super worried, and that
NotebookLM Woman 8:03
led to a big question, what’s the real impact on jobs?
NotebookLM Male 8:06
A lot of people wondered if AI was going to replace lawyers,
NotebookLM Woman 8:10
and most of our sources in legal tech didn’t think that was likely. It’s
NotebookLM Male 8:14
more about AI augmenting human ability, not replacing it. Instead,
NotebookLM Woman 8:17
many saw AI as a powerful tool to boost productivity, yeah, to help lawyers work smarter, not just harder. And a lot of the conversations focused on how AI could automate routine tasks,
NotebookLM Male 8:28
oh yeah, like document
NotebookLM Woman 8:29
review or legal research, and that would free up lawyers to do higher level work, right the stuff that needs human skill. And we also heard about the importance of prompt engineering, oh yeah, being able to ask AI the right questions, and that highlighted the need for new skills in the legal profession. Yeah, it’s
NotebookLM Male 8:44
not just about knowing the law. It’s about knowing how to use AI. Yeah.
Greg Lambert 8:48
So what were some of the lead the leaders and innovators say, like Chris sakunas or Dr Megan ma what? What were they saying about this?
NotebookLM Male 8:58
It’s definitely worth looking into what some of those leaders and innovators have said. Absolutely. We heard from Chris Ford from legal technology hub, for example, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 9:06
right. He described how Nicki shaver started the company from a personal frustration of not being able to find legal tech solutions in one place. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 9:14
so they decided to build their own to solve that problem.
NotebookLM Woman 9:16
It really shows a proactive approach to innovation. And
NotebookLM Male 9:20
then we have people like Pablo Redondo from CaseText.
NotebookLM Woman 9:24
He talked about the challenges and intensity of launching co
NotebookLM Male 9:27
counsel, and he said that it was, you know, tough on his family too. He was very open about how consuming it was. It also shows, though, how they’re really pushing boundaries with AI,
NotebookLM Woman 9:36
absolutely. And then there’s also people like Boone Lee bird at all,
NotebookLM Male 9:40
yeah. She talked about librarians taking a leadership role in the AI era. She really
NotebookLM Woman 9:45
highlighted how they’re uniquely positioned to bridge the gap. She believes they should be innovation intermediaries, right, and that it’s really important for them to step up and lead. And
NotebookLM Male 9:54
let’s not forget people like Ted theopoulos from info dash. He
NotebookLM Woman 9:57
brought up the concept of innovation theater. Sure it’s fascinating, yeah, where
NotebookLM Male 10:01
firms focus on like, superficial innovation instead of real change. So
NotebookLM Woman 10:05
he’s suggesting that people should be more critical about the changes they’re making.
NotebookLM Male 10:09
And Tim Andrews from mineralson, he emphasized the need for training and the importance of partnering with tech providers, yes, so the people who are using the technology know how to use it well, and he
NotebookLM Woman 10:21
mentioned using champions in different business units to encourage adoption. Well, let’s change gears
Greg Lambert 10:27
a little bit and talk about data management and security. We can’t really talk about generative AI and advancements in the legal tech without talking about these themes. So what were some key takeaways say from Kelly Griswold, emphasis on data management being now being a core business function in the legal industry. That’s
NotebookLM Male 10:49
a great point, Greg. It’s super important to talk about data management and security, absolutely.
NotebookLM Woman 10:53
And Kelly Griswold, from ONA, had a lot of interesting things to say about this.
NotebookLM Male 10:57
She really emphasized that data management is a core function now,
NotebookLM Woman 11:00
right? It’s not just an IT thing anymore. It’s crucial for all operations. Talked about how
NotebookLM Male 11:05
companies need to get their data in order before they implement AI.
NotebookLM Woman 11:08
Exactly. It’s like building a strong foundation for all the exciting new tech.
NotebookLM Male 11:11
She also mentioned how the hype around generative AI is bringing data management to the forefront. Yeah,
NotebookLM Woman 11:18
it’s forcing companies to realize that garbage in, garbage out, is a real thing.
NotebookLM Male 11:22
And she said that last year was the year of experimentation. This year is implementation, and
NotebookLM Woman 11:26
companies are quickly realizing that the data is key to making it work. She
NotebookLM Male 11:30
also pointed out that the legal industry is uniquely positioned to handle this data, because
NotebookLM Woman 11:35
we’ve been transforming unstructured data into structured data for years, so all that experience
NotebookLM Male 11:41
is actually really valuable in the AI era.
Greg Lambert 11:43
Can you talk more about which guests discussed information governance, data protection and ethical technology use? And I know that you said the term garbage in, garbage out. I know that Kelly Griswold wasn’t the only guest that talked about that as well. Yeah, it’s
NotebookLM Male 12:00
important to highlight who’s really focused on those issues.
NotebookLM Woman 12:03
You’re right that Kelly wasn’t the only one to use the term garbage in, garbage out. We heard it a lot, actually. Tim Andrews from mentor Ellison talked about the importance of training. Yes,
NotebookLM Male 12:11
he emphasized partnering with tech providers and getting people comfortable with the tools.
NotebookLM Woman 12:16
He also mentioned that mentor Ellison set up a digital Academy for this, and that
NotebookLM Male 12:20
shows you know that they were taking it seriously. That’s for sure.
NotebookLM Woman 12:22
Jun Lieber at all. She said that librarians should be innovation intermediaries. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 12:28
they’re uniquely positioned to lead on things like data governance, and
NotebookLM Woman 12:31
they should ensure that AI is being used ethically and responsibly. And
NotebookLM Male 12:35
Ken Jones and John Smith from the LT evolve conference, they really focused on cyber security.
NotebookLM Woman 12:39
They emphasize security, privacy and governance as the Big Three for AI,
NotebookLM Male 12:45
yeah. So those are key things to think about when using any new technology. And also,
NotebookLM Woman 12:49
Ed Walters from vLex, he highlighted transparency in AI, oh
NotebookLM Male 12:53
yeah. He talked about the prompt assist feature in Vincent AI that was designed
NotebookLM Woman 12:56
to give users more control over the AI and build trust. So
NotebookLM Male 13:00
it’s not just a black box. You can see what’s going on.
Greg Lambert 13:03
So speaking of not just a black box and being transparent, what were some of the other themes on transparency during this age of AI in legal tech, you know,
NotebookLM Woman 13:14
a lot of our sources stress the need for transparency in AI, especially, to build trust with both lawyers and clients, right? And that’s why we kept hearing about Explainable AI, oh yeah, where you can
NotebookLM Male 13:24
see why an AI is giving you a certain result, exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 13:27
And some tools give you that ability to dig into the details,
NotebookLM Male 13:32
like Ed Walters for vLex, he really emphasized the importance of audit ability, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 13:37
right. And having that control over the AI, like we just mentioned with the prophecy feature, and
NotebookLM Male 13:42
even if the tech is complex, you need a way to understand it. And
NotebookLM Woman 13:46
a lot of companies mention that they’re not just throwing stuff out there to get
NotebookLM Male 13:49
used, they’re making sure these tools are used responsibly.
NotebookLM Woman 13:53
And it’s not just about tech, but also the human side of things too, yeah,
NotebookLM Male 13:57
like making sure that AI tools don’t have bias built into them. And
NotebookLM Woman 14:00
we also heard a lot about the need for data privacy,
NotebookLM Male 14:03
right, ensuring that your client’s information is secure and protected. So transparency
NotebookLM Woman 14:07
is really about accountability and trust in AI, you’ve mentioned
Greg Lambert 14:11
a lot of these topics. Can you name specifically some of the guests that talked about these? Absolutely, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 14:17
a great question. Greg, yeah, it’s really helpful to put names to the ideas we’ve been discussing.
NotebookLM Male 14:21
So when we talked about Explainable AI, Ed Walters from vLex was a big one, right?
NotebookLM Woman 14:26
He highlighted how important it is to see how AI is coming up with answers. And when
NotebookLM Male 14:30
we were discussing ethical considerations, June Lieber et al definitely stood out. She
NotebookLM Woman 14:35
really pushed for librarians to take the lead on responsible tech use and
NotebookLM Male 14:40
for data governance, we heard a lot from Kelly Griswold at ONA.
NotebookLM Woman 14:43
She really emphasized that data management is now a core business function,
NotebookLM Male 14:48
and so hopefully that gives you a better picture of who’s leading the charge. Well, let’s move
Greg Lambert 14:52
into legal, technology, tools and the vendors we discussed this year. What were some of the highlights of discussion? Discussions with the big players, like Thompson, Reuters with their case Tex and CO counsel, or LexisNexis with protege and even Bloomberg and vLex. What were the highlights of those big players this year? Yeah, it’s
NotebookLM Woman 15:14
really helpful to see how some of these major companies are shaping the legal tech landscape. We
NotebookLM Male 15:18
did talk to Ed Walters from vLex, who, you know, he’s really pushing transparency in AI,
NotebookLM Woman 15:22
yeah, he highlighted their prompt assist feature in Vincent AI, which is designed to give users more
NotebookLM Male 15:28
control, right? So you can see how it’s coming up with answers. It’s not just a black box. And
NotebookLM Woman 15:32
we also heard from Serena Wellen at LexisNexis about their AI assistant called Lexis protege. She
NotebookLM Male 15:37
was talking about how with the personalized AI tool that learns what you
NotebookLM Woman 15:41
need, yeah, so it adapts to how you work, which is really interesting. And when we
NotebookLM Male 15:44
talked to Pablo Arredondo at CaseText, he was really open about the intensity of launching co counsel. He was
NotebookLM Woman 15:50
talking about how much effort and focus it takes to create something like that. He also
NotebookLM Male 15:55
touched on the challenges of balancing innovation with personal life and
NotebookLM Woman 15:59
Bloomberg Law, they recently acquired dashboard legal, which seems like a really strategic move. Yeah.
NotebookLM Male 16:06
Matthew Rotenberg from dashboard legal talked about combining structured workflows content and AI, right? It’s like they’re moving towards more integrated solutions, and that might be where this whole thing is heading. These like all in one platforms, these
NotebookLM Woman 16:17
companies are not just throwing a tool out there, they’re thinking about how these tools can fit into workflows. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 16:22
it’s about making all of this as easy and seamless as possible.
Greg Lambert 16:26
So let’s get away from the big companies for a minute and talk about some of the smaller vendors that are creating, say, more point solutions for legal tech, for example, there may be diligence comes to mind. So what are the smaller vendors doing, enhancing workflows with generative AI?
NotebookLM Male 16:48
It’s not all about the huge companies with the big platforms. You’re
NotebookLM Woman 16:51
right. Smaller vendors are often the ones pushing boundaries in very specific areas. For
NotebookLM Male 16:56
example, you brought up there’s diligence, and they are very focused on AI due diligence. They’re using
NotebookLM Woman 17:01
AI to streamline that whole process, automating the review of contracts and documents, and
NotebookLM Male 17:06
that’s something that can take up a ton of time.
NotebookLM Woman 17:09
Absolutely, they’re a good example of a point solution that is very powerful.
NotebookLM Male 17:12
And then we have companies like Alexi who are focusing on litigation workflows. They
NotebookLM Woman 17:17
have AI tools to assist with research discovery and even drafting documents,
NotebookLM Male 17:21
yeah, and that’s really helpful for litigation teams. And it
NotebookLM Woman 17:24
seems like, I feel like the smaller vendors are more focused on, you know, specific pain points, right? It’s
NotebookLM Male 17:30
like, instead of trying to do everything, they’re solving one problem really well.
NotebookLM Woman 17:33
And another trend is that many are building on existing platforms and tools.
NotebookLM Male 17:38
Oh, yeah. So rather than creating entirely new systems. They’re just adding a specific function. That’s
NotebookLM Woman 17:43
right, that might be a more efficient way to approach things for some firms. Can
Greg Lambert 17:48
Can you give an example of that where a company is building upon a platform already?
NotebookLM Male 17:54
So, you know, we talked about a company like Alexi right that is focused on litigation workflows.
NotebookLM Woman 17:59
Yes, and they are building upon the Microsoft suite of tools. Exactly. Instead
NotebookLM Male 18:04
of creating everything from scratch, they’re using Microsoft and building the litigation specific AI tools on top of it. It’s a
NotebookLM Woman 18:11
way for them to integrate with existing systems that many law firms are already using, which makes it easier for firms to adopt their tech. Right?
NotebookLM Male 18:18
They don’t need to switch to a completely new system, just add to what they already have, which is smart,
NotebookLM Woman 18:22
and it makes it easier for lawyers too, because they don’t need to learn a completely new platform. That’s
NotebookLM Male 18:27
a great point. So by building on those familiar platforms, those smaller vendors can offer solutions that integrate more easily into existing workflows, exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 18:37
And that’s what they were seeing a lot of in the legal tech space. And
NotebookLM Male 18:40
it makes total sense. You know, it’s about making things more seamless and efficient for the end user. Absolutely.
NotebookLM Woman 18:45
So as we’ve been saying, it’s all about finding tools that actually fit into people’s workflow. And this is another example of that. One
Greg Lambert 18:51
of the good things about the legal technology community is that there’s a lot of collaboration and even some social impact. So let’s look at guests like say Tom Martin and even initiatives like the one at February drinkers redesign legal Design Lab. What have your guests said about their impact on collaboration and social impact? It’s
NotebookLM Male 19:14
great that you brought up the collaborative and social impact side of things,
NotebookLM Woman 19:18
absolutely, and it’s something that really does set the legal tech community apart.
NotebookLM Male 19:23
Okay, let’s unpack this. You mentioned Tom Martin from lodroid. He’s a great example of someone with a strong focus on social impact. That’s
NotebookLM Woman 19:29
right. He really emphasizes that lodroid is designed to help make the legal system more accessible to underserved communities.
NotebookLM Male 19:35
Yeah, he’s using AI and automation to break down barriers to justice. And
NotebookLM Woman 19:40
he’s also co founder of the legal technology Awards, which really highlights the industry’s commitment to social impact.
NotebookLM Male 19:46
And you brought up Baker, drinkers, legal Design Lab, they’re really focused on bringing people together to solve problems creatively, right?
NotebookLM Woman 19:53
DJ gross talked about bringing in clients, community organizations and internal staff to brainstorm. And better solutions.
NotebookLM Male 20:00
Yeah, and they use design thinking, which is all about empathy and collaboration. And it’s
NotebookLM Woman 20:04
not just about the big, complex cases, either. They also use this approach for pro bono work and community outreach, and they’re
NotebookLM Male 20:11
always trying to incorporate fun and exciting technology, which is a great idea. It really
NotebookLM Woman 20:14
shows a commitment to increasing both collaboration and joy. So
NotebookLM Male 20:19
I think there’s a real sense that the legal field is starting to prioritize collaboration. For sure, let’s
Greg Lambert 20:25
pull on that thread about skills and emotional intelligence that you talked about what were some of Rachel Bosch is key points on developing communication and emotional intelligence skills for lawyers. Yeah, we’ve talked a lot
NotebookLM Male 20:38
about the why. Now let’s talk about the how.
NotebookLM Woman 20:40
So Rachel Bosch from fringe professional development had a lot to say about this. Okay, let’s unpack this. One of her biggest points was the need for self awareness.
NotebookLM Male 20:48
Oh, yeah, like knowing your own communication style Exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 20:51
She said you can’t really improve until you understand where you’re starting from,
NotebookLM Male 20:55
so recognizing if you’re too direct or maybe too passive, right? And
NotebookLM Woman 21:01
she also emphasized the importance of emotional intelligence, oh,
NotebookLM Male 21:06
yeah, like understanding how your emotions impact your communication,
NotebookLM Woman 21:09
and also how to recognize and manage other people’s emotions,
NotebookLM Male 21:13
right? So it’s not just about your feelings, but other people’s too. And
NotebookLM Woman 21:17
she said that emotional regulation is a key challenge, especially in law
NotebookLM Male 21:21
Yeah, because historically, law schools have encouraged lawyers to check their emotions at the door, which
NotebookLM Woman 21:28
she says means that no one learns how to manage those feelings.
NotebookLM Male 21:31
And she mentioned brain based coaching as a way to get better at that, right?
NotebookLM Woman 21:35
Because it grounds the process in neuroscience to make it more concrete. And
NotebookLM Male 21:39
she also brought up the concept of upward feedback,
NotebookLM Woman 21:41
yes, getting feedback from your team and from your clients, that’s really essential, and
NotebookLM Male 21:46
she designed a tool for that that is like, confidential and easy to use, because
NotebookLM Woman 21:50
she noted most lawyers aren’t very good at giving or receiving feedback,
NotebookLM Male 21:54
and she said it’s often about addressing those behavioral patterns, rather
NotebookLM Woman 21:58
than making a judgment about someone’s personality, which doesn’t change. So
Greg Lambert 22:02
in addition to Rachel Bosch, I know there were guests like Xena Applebaum and other guests that addressed emotional intelligence this year. Can you talk about them as well? Yeah, we
NotebookLM Male 22:14
definitely heard from a few guests who touched on
NotebookLM Woman 22:16
that. So in addition to Rachel Bosch, we also heard from Xena Applebaum, and although she didn’t discuss emotional intelligence directly, she did touch on empathy,
NotebookLM Male 22:24
right? When you’re dealing with sensitive data, you have to be aware of people’s feelings, which
NotebookLM Woman 22:28
I think is a really important aspect of emotional intelligence, absolutely.
NotebookLM Male 22:31
And then there were some others, like Caroline Hill, yes, in
NotebookLM Woman 22:35
her episode, she talked a lot about how the legal tech industry is changing,
NotebookLM Male 22:38
and when there’s that much change, it could be hard for people to adjust, right? So
NotebookLM Woman 22:42
leaders need to be able to manage that transition with empathy. And
NotebookLM Male 22:45
that’s all part of emotional intelligence, understanding how to lead through change,
NotebookLM Woman 22:49
and also the whole concept of collaboration that we talked about earlier,
NotebookLM Male 22:53
oh, yeah, that really brings in the human element of things,
NotebookLM Woman 22:55
because when you’re working together, emotional intelligence is key. Which of the
Greg Lambert 22:59
guests discuss things like ethical technology use and client trust related to regulatory developments. Several
NotebookLM Woman 23:08
guests touched on those themes. So let’s unpack this. Okay, here we go. June Lieber at all was really big on ethical tech use,
NotebookLM Male 23:16
right? She was pushing for librarians to lead the way on that.
NotebookLM Woman 23:19
She was saying that they need to make sure that AI is used responsibly. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 23:23
that it’s not just about adopting new tools, but doing it thoughtfully. And we also
NotebookLM Woman 23:27
heard from Ken Jones and Josh Smith at the LTA evolve conference,
NotebookLM Male 23:31
oh, yeah, they emphasize how important it is to have strong security measures, especially when you’re dealing with client data, of course. And that relates to client trust, because data privacy is a big deal, exactly.
NotebookLM Woman 23:41
And Ed Walters from vLex, he talked about transparency. And AI,
NotebookLM Male 23:45
yeah, he highlighted their prompt exist feature so people can understand how it works,
NotebookLM Woman 23:49
and that builds trust with users, because they can actually see what’s going on. And of course, we heard about regulatory developments too. That was touched on in the discussion about ethical walls. Yes, Nicky
NotebookLM Male 23:58
black brought that up in our legal tech in 2024 episode, and
NotebookLM Woman 24:02
I think a lot of guests really stress that you can’t have one without the other, right? You
NotebookLM Male 24:06
need to have ethical tech use and client trust to navigate all of this. What
Greg Lambert 24:10
about the bommaris during the love and legal tech series? I know they talked about ethics and technology. Can you highlight some of the things that they said, Yeah, they
NotebookLM Woman 24:21
were definitely a memorable couple from that series. You’re right. The bommaris did touch on ethics and technology. So let’s unpack this. Okay, here’s where it gets really interesting. Michael Bommarito talked about how a lot of the big AI model providers didn’t really consider ethics early on.
NotebookLM Male 24:34
Oh yeah. He mentioned that, like, technical teams were just focused on the technology, and they
NotebookLM Woman 24:39
didn’t really think about things like toxicity or copyright issues right until those issues started to show up later. And he said that there’s a real cost to going back and fixing those problems after they’ve accumulated, like
NotebookLM Male 24:50
they built a house without a solid foundation and now they have to redo it
NotebookLM Woman 24:54
exactly. And I also emphasized the importance of a human centered approach. Approach
NotebookLM Male 25:00
to AI. It can’t just be about the tech, but about how it affects people. And they
NotebookLM Woman 25:05
really made a point to say that tech should serve people and not the other way around. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 25:10
I think that is a really important point, particularly in the legal field, right?
NotebookLM Woman 25:13
So they highlighted that it’s not enough to just build something cool. You have to be ethical about it.
NotebookLM Male 25:17
And those are great insights that really underscore the need to consider the long term implication of technology.
Greg Lambert 25:24
One other long term effect of technology, especially generative AI, is going to be training. So what things were discussed about training, say, new associates, whether they’re in law school or when they arrive at a firm, what’s kind of the position that the guests took on training this year?
NotebookLM Male 25:44
Yeah, you’re right. Training and Education, that’s a huge part of this whole puzzle.
NotebookLM Woman 25:47
So let’s unpack some of the things we heard about training, both for law students and new associates. Okay, here’s where it gets really interesting. Abdi Shayne, stuff from Alta claro pointed out that law firms are having to pick up where law schools leave off. It’s
NotebookLM Male 26:00
like law schools aren’t quite keeping pace with all this new technology, right?
NotebookLM Woman 26:04
And it’s leaving firms with the responsibility of training new lawyers on AI and tech, which
NotebookLM Male 26:10
is a big shift. You know, firms usually focus more on legal skills, not tech,
NotebookLM Woman 26:14
exactly, and that means they need to have more robust training programs. And that’s
NotebookLM Male 26:18
where people like Tim Andrews at mentorson Come in.
NotebookLM Woman 26:20
Yes, they actually created a digital Academy to get everyone up to speed. It’s
NotebookLM Male 26:24
a really proactive and strategic approach to tech adoption, and
NotebookLM Woman 26:28
it shows a real commitment to change management, too. And we
NotebookLM Male 26:31
also heard from Caitlin Vaughn, and she talked about her firm’s approach. That’s
NotebookLM Woman 26:35
right, they flipped the script, and instead of just a brief boot camp, they did full time training
NotebookLM Male 26:40
that is really different. For eight and a half weeks, the new associates got that training, and
NotebookLM Woman 26:44
it was a mix of technical skills, professional skills, even a mini MBA,
NotebookLM Male 26:48
so a really comprehensive approach that goes beyond the typical training programs. And she
NotebookLM Woman 26:53
said that what they know from adult learning theory is that you have to learn and do the skills to retain the knowledge that makes sense. There
Greg Lambert 27:02
were also some discussions on training attorneys to become effective prompt engineers. What were the pros and cons discussed this year about focusing in on training attorneys to be prompt engineers? Yeah,
NotebookLM Woman 27:16
it’s definitely a nuanced area. So let’s unpack the pros and cons we heard this year. Okay,
NotebookLM Male 27:20
so on the one hand, it’s clear that prompt engineering is a really valuable skill, absolutely
NotebookLM Woman 27:25
being able to effectively communicate with AI. It’s not just about knowing the law anymore, right?
NotebookLM Male 27:30
You’ve got to be able to ask the right questions to get the best results from these tools. And
NotebookLM Woman 27:34
as we’ve discussed, some of the AI tools have the ability to help you understand why the AI came up with the answer. So
NotebookLM Male 27:40
training lawyers to become skill prompt engineers would mean that they can use AI much more effectively in their
NotebookLM Woman 27:46
practice, and that could really boost their productivity and their efficiency. But
NotebookLM Male 27:50
it’s also worth noting that not everyone thinks this should be the main focus. You know, right? Some
NotebookLM Woman 27:55
people mentioned that you shouldn’t get caught up in just the technical side.
NotebookLM Male 27:58
They think that lawyers should really prioritize the skills that are uniquely human, like critical thinking and relationship building, and
NotebookLM Woman 28:06
that ties into the idea that AI is a tool that you use, but not the end product itself.
NotebookLM Male 28:12
So a con might be that if lawyers get too focused on prompt engineering, they might miss out on other important skills. It also
NotebookLM Woman 28:18
raises the question of how much time and resources firms should invest in this specific kind of training. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 28:24
is it better to train all lawyers to be proficient prompt engineers or to have specialists?
NotebookLM Woman 28:30
And like we heard from AB day, law schools are doing a hard time keeping up with all this new technology. So
NotebookLM Male 28:34
it might be up to firms to train all their lawyers in this new skill, which is a big investment, and
NotebookLM Woman 28:40
firms need to decide what they’re willing to specialize in.
Greg Lambert 28:43
Speaking of law firms in using this generative AI, can you identify any specific use cases discussed within law firms for generative? AI, that’s
NotebookLM Woman 28:54
a fantastic question. Greg, yeah, and we did hear about a number of very concrete use cases for generative. AI, within law firms. Okay, let’s unpack this. So for instance, mentor Ellison, they’ve been using Microsoft copilot, yes, and
NotebookLM Male 29:06
Amber O’Meara and Tim Andrews talked about creating a digital Academy to train everyone to use it. Well,
NotebookLM Woman 29:12
they’re using it for all sorts of things like document drafting, summarizing information and research, and
NotebookLM Male 29:18
it seems to really boost productivity when you have the training to use it properly. And we
NotebookLM Woman 29:22
heard from Mark doble at Alexi, they have an AI tool for litigation workflows.
NotebookLM Male 29:27
Yeah, they’re using AI to assist with research discovery and document drafting too,
NotebookLM Woman 29:31
right? So it really streamlines the whole litigation process. And then there’s Bloomberg Law, they acquire dashboard legal, and Matthew Rotenberg was talking about how they’re using AI to combine workflows, content and data.
NotebookLM Male 29:43
Yeah, so it’s not just a standalone AI tool, it’s really baked into their platform. And of course,
NotebookLM Woman 29:47
there are firms that are using AI for due diligence, like, there’s diligence, right?
NotebookLM Male 29:52
They’re using AI to automate contract reviews and document analysis. And
NotebookLM Woman 29:56
I think a lot of firms are exploring how to use AI for things like. Contract review and legal research. That was a really common theme we heard, yeah, I heard the AI could help with all that, but it really depends on the specific firm, and it’s neat.
NotebookLM Male 30:07
It’s worth mentioning that firms are also using AI for things like client communication, and
NotebookLM Woman 30:12
some firms are even using AI to help with flat fee pricing models, right?
NotebookLM Male 30:16
And we heard that mentioned a few times as
Greg Lambert 30:18
well. Speaking of concrete examples, I know we had Dr Megan ma on to talk about the M and A emulator that they designed through Codex. And then we also had on a guest who was actually the, literally, the brains behind the process of that. Can you talk about that M and a deal? And it’s the emulator that they set up, yeah,
NotebookLM Woman 30:46
and you’re right, we had both Dr Megan MA and Conrad Everhard on the show.
NotebookLM Male 30:50
Okay, so let’s unpack this Megan MA from Codex. She was leading the project at Stanford, right?
NotebookLM Woman 30:56
And they were creating this m and a negotiation simulator using AI agents. And,
NotebookLM Male 31:01
you know, Conrad Eberhard, he was actually the legal expert behind the project. Yeah,
NotebookLM Woman 31:05
he was from flat iron law, and he provided the knowledge of what to program
NotebookLM Male 31:09
you mentioned that it was frustrating at first, because the AI wasn’t really getting the nuances right. It was
Unknown Speaker 31:14
just spitting back junk, as he said. But then, with him spoon
NotebookLM Male 31:17
feeding the model, it started to come to life.
NotebookLM Woman 31:19
Exactly. He had to guide the AI through all the complexities of M and A deals like liability profiles, and
NotebookLM Male 31:26
he said that they focused specifically on the term sheet and liability,
NotebookLM Woman 31:30
which is a very complicated part of the negotiation. And
NotebookLM Male 31:34
eventually, he said the simulator was able to actually negotiate back with him. That’s
NotebookLM Woman 31:37
right, he was trying to get a 50% cap on liability with a five year survival period, which he said was unreasonable, and the AI came back and said, You’re out of your mind. That’s not market. It’s pretty amazing, really, how far the simulator had come along.
NotebookLM Male 31:50
Yeah, and they learned a lot about prompting and guiding these Large Language Models. And, you
NotebookLM Woman 31:54
know, Conrad said that it taught them how to summarize info and find complex information. And
NotebookLM Male 31:59
they’re incorporating those lessons into their own due diligence efforts now, so it’s a
NotebookLM Woman 32:03
great example of how hands on experience can really push the boundaries of legal tech Absolutely. And
NotebookLM Male 32:09
it’s all about knowing that you have to provide the context and the
NotebookLM Woman 32:13
guidance. And now they’re actually looking at taking the next iteration of that project private, because right now it’s open source right?
NotebookLM Male 32:20
Which is also really interesting. Since they are opening it up to everyone to participate, they want to
NotebookLM Woman 32:25
get tax lawyers and other experts to contribute to it. So it gets even better,
NotebookLM Male 32:28
so that M and a simulator was definitely a key moment in the evolution of AI and law. Well,
Greg Lambert 32:33
let’s, let’s wrap this up. Is, is there any big topics that were discussed this year that we haven’t highlighted yet.
NotebookLM Woman 32:42
Well, one big theme was definitely the ethics of AI and how to make sure we’re using it responsibly. Oh,
NotebookLM Male 32:48
yeah, like bias in algorithms and data privacy concerns. That was Jun Ken and Josh. So firms
NotebookLM Woman 32:53
need to use AI responsibly and with strong security like we
NotebookLM Male 32:56
heard from them, right? It’s not enough to just adopt new tech. You need to do it thoughtfully. And we
NotebookLM Woman 33:00
heard about companies like vLex focusing on transparency with
NotebookLM Male 33:04
AI, yeah, so people can trust the technology and understand what’s happening, like Ed said. And
NotebookLM Woman 33:08
it was also clear that the legal field is at a big inflection point, yeah, like we’re at the beginning of a huge wave of change, and that means that everyone, lawyers and firms, they need to adapt. It’s
NotebookLM Male 33:18
about finding the best way to use AI to your advantage.
NotebookLM Woman 33:22
And finally, we heard about AI democratizing access to legal information. Yeah?
NotebookLM Male 33:28
How AI can make things like complex legal documents easier to understand, like Richard Carra said, so
NotebookLM Woman 33:33
it wasn’t just about improving things for lawyers. It was also about making the
NotebookLM Male 33:37
legal system more accessible to everyone.
Greg Lambert 33:39
Yeah, speaking of the access to justice issue, or a to J, as it’s referred to, who were some of the guests that we had that really focused in on access to justice issues. We had Kara
NotebookLM Male 33:52
Peterson and rich DiBona from describe.ai and they were really focused on making legal information more accessible to everyone, especially those who don’t have it right now. That’s right,
NotebookLM Woman 34:02
they see it as a public health issue, and how the legal system is set up is not really ideal for anyone, and that’s what got them so interested in it. And
NotebookLM Male 34:08
then there was, there’s Tom Harden from law droid. He’s also very focused on making legal services more accessible to underserved communities, and
NotebookLM Woman 34:15
he’s using AI and automation to help break down some of those barriers. And
NotebookLM Male 34:19
Sara glass Meyer and Nicky black. They talked about how some really useful legal tech tools that could help self represented litigants are often not allowed because of UPL concerns, right?
NotebookLM Woman 34:29
They both mentioned some AI tools that could really help people, but there are some obstacles to actually getting them into the hands of the people who need them. Changing
Greg Lambert 34:36
gears just a little bit. The there was a Stanford study that came out at the end of May that went through and benchmarked a lot of the legal research tools like Westlaw and Lexis and others, and it found that the there was a big difference between the marketing of those tools and saying how they. Did or did not hallucinate, versus what the what the group at Stanford found out. Can you talk more about that study, both the good things and some of the the issues that was that revolved around that study, it
NotebookLM Woman 35:14
really did stir up a lot of discussion in the legal tech community. It was a
NotebookLM Male 35:17
benchmarking survey on how well legal research tools were doing with Al, right?
NotebookLM Woman 35:21
And there was definitely a big difference between the marketing claims and what the researchers found. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 35:27
some of these tools were claiming to be like hallucination free, but this study showed that wasn’t really the case. And I think
NotebookLM Woman 35:32
that really highlighted how important it is to be skeptical, right, and not just believe all the marketing claims
NotebookLM Male 35:39
Absolutely. And it’s not just about legal research tools. We’ve heard from other guests too, but how vendors are not always transparent with their AI
NotebookLM Woman 35:46
That’s right, it shows the need for, like, independent research and testing of these tools so people can make informed decisions.
NotebookLM Male 35:51
And you know, it wasn’t all bad. The study also highlighted that some of the AI tools were, you know, actually pretty good at some things,
NotebookLM Woman 35:58
yes, and I believe the researchers did update their report too to reflect the tools that actually focus on legal research. That’s
NotebookLM Male 36:04
right, because the initial report had some tools that weren’t really legal research tools. So
NotebookLM Woman 36:09
it shows that even these research groups are learning as they go, and we all have to be flexible and willing to change. And
NotebookLM Male 36:15
what I thought was interesting was that it put vendors under pressure right to be more transparent about their AI tech
NotebookLM Woman 36:21
exactly, and that ultimately benefits everyone, both lawyers and clients. So
Greg Lambert 36:26
let’s have a little fun looking back at the the podcast this year, I know that I am notorious for saying things like, all problems are communication problems, and I have those, those types of phrases that I use time and time again. What were some other phrases that you saw that either I or Marlene repeated frequently throughout the year in the podcast? That’s a fun
NotebookLM Woman 36:51
question. Greg, it’s good to take a moment to look back on some of those recurring phrases. Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 36:55
okay, let’s unpack this. We both definitely got a few that we tend to go back to.
NotebookLM Woman 36:59
You’re right. Your phrase all problems, our communication problems really became a hallmark. And Marlene often says, You know what I mean at the end of her sentences, that’s
NotebookLM Male 37:07
a great one. It’s like a way of checking to see if we’re on the same page. And she also
NotebookLM Woman 37:11
uses it’s like to explain how things work a lot. It is like an easy way to make things relatable. You’re right. And those are just a few of the phrases that really stick out. We really do have our own little podcast language. And you’re right, it is fun to recognize how those things have become a part of the show.
Greg Lambert 37:26
So looking back at the 50 episodes, I mean, this podcast is called the geek in review, so let’s focus on the geeky part. So what, what did you think was the geekiest topic discussed on the podcast this year.
NotebookLM Male 37:41
It’s fun to think about the most like geeky stuff we
NotebookLM Woman 37:45
covered this year. Yeah, and you’re right, we do dive into some pretty niche areas. Okay, so if
NotebookLM Male 37:49
I had to pick just one, I’d say the m a negotiation simulator that Codex built that was next level.
NotebookLM Woman 37:54
Oh, yeah, that was fascinating. And I think you’re right, it definitely stands out as a really geeky project,
NotebookLM Male 37:58
like they literally built an AI that could negotiate a deal. It’s crazy, yeah. And you
NotebookLM Woman 38:03
had Conrad Everhard, that lawyer, actually showing the simulator how it should work. It was
NotebookLM Male 38:07
wild. It’s like they were pushing the boundaries of what’s even possible. They
NotebookLM Woman 38:11
were really getting into the Wades of term sheets and liability caps. And
NotebookLM Male 38:15
then you had Megan ma explaining the whole project using AI. It’s a
NotebookLM Woman 38:18
fantastic example of how AI can be used to enhance both legal and business expertise.
NotebookLM Male 38:24
So yeah, that M and a simulator really picks the cake for geekiest topic of the year. What about
Greg Lambert 38:29
data visualization? I think that’s pretty geeky. Did we talk did we talk about data visualization?
NotebookLM Woman 38:35
Yeah, and we definitely did talk about it. Tim Faulk from structure flow, he was a key guest. He was talking
NotebookLM Male 38:41
about how legal is traditionally very word focused, you
NotebookLM Woman 38:46
know, like those medieval parchments. It’s like the written word is king or queen. But
NotebookLM Male 38:50
he was saying how data visualization is so important, right? Because
NotebookLM Woman 38:53
there’s so much complexity now you need to be able to cut through it.
NotebookLM Male 38:56
You gave that example of the Dutch East India Company, how they were mapping things, yeah,
NotebookLM Woman 39:01
and JP Morgan, he had a chart in 1913 it’s all about understanding relationships,
NotebookLM Male 39:05
and now we have technology, so it’s easier to visualize stuff than ever before, absolutely.
NotebookLM Woman 39:09
So you’re right. Data visualization is a pretty geeky topic. So let
Greg Lambert 39:13
me, let me wrap this up. Every episode typically ends with what the what the host called the crystal ball question. So looking at all of the crystal ball questions from this year, what were some commonalities of what people were looking at would would challenge or change the industry in the next two to five years? Yeah,
NotebookLM Male 39:37
it’s like everyone we talked to got a chance to look into the future. So
NotebookLM Woman 39:41
looking at all of this crystal ball responses, a few things really stand out as common themes. I think
NotebookLM Male 39:45
the biggest one was like the rise of AI and generative AI, like Jaron from henchman said, absolutely
NotebookLM Woman 39:51
everyone was trying to figure out how AI will impact the legal industry, both in terms of the challenges and the opportunities,
NotebookLM Male 39:59
and that ties into. The second big thing, which was the need for training and adaptation. Right?
NotebookLM Woman 40:03
A lot of people mentioned that lawyers will have to develop new skills to keep up with technology,
NotebookLM Male 40:07
like Tim Andrews mentioned with digital Academy, and that included
NotebookLM Woman 40:11
not just technical skills, but soft skills like communication and emotional intelligence too, as Rachel Bosch said, which
NotebookLM Male 40:18
is a big change for the legal field, where those haven’t been as prioritized,
NotebookLM Woman 40:22
and a lot of guests brought up the need to invest in data management and security, like we heard from Kelly Griswold and others, if
NotebookLM Male 40:30
you don’t have good data, the AI won’t be all that useful.
NotebookLM Woman 40:33
And there were a lot of concerns around ethical considerations and transparency
NotebookLM Male 40:37
too, right? That was a big thing for people like Ed Walters and Jun Liebert, there was
NotebookLM Woman 40:41
also this recurring theme about the importance of collaboration and innovation. That’s like what we heard about from the legal Design Lab. And, of course, several guests touched on the need for law firms to move away from the billable hour and start
NotebookLM Male 40:53
adopting value based pricing, like we heard from Conrad Eberhard.
NotebookLM Woman 40:56
So those were some of the common things that people were saying when they looked into the future. Well,
Greg Lambert 41:01
I want to thank both of you for taking all of my questions. This has been fascinating to look at the 50 episodes and then have this conversation reviewing those. So thank you very much.
NotebookLM Woman 41:13
You’re very welcome, Greg, and thank you for such thoughtful questions. Yeah, it’s been a blast
NotebookLM Male 41:17
having you chime in and really dig into everything and for sharing your insights and thoughts with us. So
Greg Lambert 41:22
again, I want to thank Josh Kubicki for giving me this idea of jumping in with notebook. LLM on the audio overview, I think that’s pretty fascinating. It’s interesting to be able to take content and have this type of a conversation. It’s definitely not perfect. There was a lot of things I think that the they missed, they kept kind of going back to the same things over and over again, but again, really interesting to have this kind of conversation. So I hope you enjoyed listening as much as I enjoyed talking and having the conversation with notebook LLM and again, thanks to Josh Kubicki for giving me the idea, and this is our end of year. So I want to wish everyone Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. If you enjoyed listening to all the episodes this year of the geek and review, please take the time to share it with your friends and colleagues, and if you want to learn more from us, lean and I are both on LinkedIn and blue sky, and I’m sure you can reach us other places as well. And as always, the music that you hear is from Jerry. David pasca, so thanks, Jerry, and Happy New Year everyone.