Whether you loved it or hated it… Season One of She-Hulk: Attorney at Law is in the books. And this also wraps up Season One of SuperHuman Law Division (SHLD) Podcast. We’ve enjoyed going through and spotting the legal and law firm issues and discussing them from both a lawyer’s perspective and a legal operations professional’s point of view.
We reached back out to local counsel this week and brought back Ashley Carlisle, Head of Marketing at HyperDraft to walk us through the legal topics of this specific episode, but also to put back on her marketing and business development hat and break down the good, the bad, and the downright ugly of GLK/H’s marketing strategy. Honestly, it was GLK/H’s lack of marketing strategy that really happened in this fictional MCU BigLaw firm.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to listen to our thoughts on the show. We’ll take a break and determine what we’ll talk about in a possible Season Two of SHLD. If you have suggestions, ping us at @SuperHumanPod on Twitter.
Stay Super Everyone!!
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- Ashley Carlisle (LinkedIn)
- HyperDraft (website)
- HyperDraft (LinkedIn)
- SuperHuman Law Division Website
Greg Lambert 0:19
Imagine running a SuperHuman Law Division of a law firm. That’s exactly what we’re going to talk about here. And we’re going to start off the series by reviewing the new She-Hulk Attorney at Law show on Disney plus. So let’s dive into the series finale who show is this? I’m Greg Lambert. And once again, I’ve reached out to local counsel and Los Angeles, Ashley Carlisle, who is Head of Marketing at HyperDraft. Ashley once again, thanks for coming in and helping me wrap up the season.
Ashley Carlisle 0:50
Of course. Yeah, as we’ll get into this was an interesting ending.
Greg Lambert 0:54
Yeah, to say the least. Yeah, there’s lots of pluses and minuses. I think that that were going on in this. So we got a lot to cover in this. Plus, we’re going to do some bonus content at the end. So let’s jump in at the beginning of the show. So we had had kind of an interesting thing. Did you ever watch the original, The Incredible Hulk TV show with Bill Bixby?
Ashley Carlisle 1:17
I did not. And so at first when I watched this, I was really confused. And then I Googled, like, basically episode nine intro, because I was like, so confused. What is going on here? It looks very cool. And obviously looks like we’re being transported to the 70s. I then learned from Google that this show was super popular. Were you familiar with the show?
Greg Lambert 1:40
I’m old enough that I actually watched the show on PBS so but I was a kid. So no, I’m not that old. Yeah, so it’ll be XP. And Lou Ferrigno. We’re actually Dr. David Banner, because I don’t know if you know, this, but you know, he’s Bruce Banner in the comic books, and in the MCU, but some executive at CBS in the 70s thought that the name Bruce sounded too gay. And so they made Marvel they made Stan Lee changed the name of the character to David. Just sign of the times.
Ashley Carlisle 2:14
Wow, I didn’t know that. That’s such an odd story.
Greg Lambert 2:18
And it’s because of this show that she Hulk actually exists that all because CBS had planned on creating a woman Hulk at some point, as a spin off of this show. And in order to keep their intellectual property rights to the Hulk. Stan Lee went back and this was I think we’d mentioned it in early episodes of this show that he went in and created G Hulk and it was actually one of the last comic books that he actually wrote. So Wow. 1979, 1980.
Ashley Carlisle 2:56
Of course, it was a grab for IP rights even in the 70s. I’m glad that lawyers have been active in this space for decades.
Greg Lambert 3:03
I love the wide collars I love the you know the green screen computers the
Ashley Carlisle 3:09
well it looked like they did. I mean you watch the show, but from what I looked up, it looks like they completely recreated the opening credits of the TV show with Jen Walters slash She-Hulk, which is really cool. I liked the clothes. I liked how they did the style and the lens a little bit different. And you know, as we talked about last episode, I love a catchphrase. So I love that they included the catchphrase, I was kind of mad that that wasn’t you know, the title of the episode. But as we’re gonna get into the title of the episode is very apt who show is this? What’s happening? So but I do love a catchphrase. So I was very happy to have that final scene of her doing, I guess, which I didn’t know the 70s catchphrase.
Greg Lambert 3:52
Yeah, don’t don’t make me angry. You won’t like me when I’m angry. Of course, you know, at the end of last episode, we had her being arrested after after intelligencia attacked her with the video at the gala. And it looks like the Department of what is that?
Ashley Carlisle 4:15
I don’t know. All I know is they have the cool Taser guns.
Greg Lambert 4:19
Yeah. And so she was arrested. And we see after this dream sequence of Jen coming in and waking up in the same cell that abomination was in earlier in the show. So she has to make a deal. She tries to talk about how she’s going to go after the people that attacked her. And Mallory Book has to kind of bring her back to reality and go, Jen, that’s not really the important thing right now. We have to worry about you because you’re under arrest. People see you as losing control. And as a superhuman that has lost control. Just like her cousin said earlier, once they see that that’s all they see.
Ashley Carlisle 5:04
Yes. And I just remembered, is it the Department of Damage Control?
Greg Lambert 5:08
There we go. Department of Damage Control. Thank you.
Ashley Carlisle 5:10
I remember the name was kind of funny, but it was memorable. So yes, I did see she’s an abomination cell, which I guess makes sense, because I’m sure those are expensive, and you don’t need many, so I guess it makes sense. She’d be in the same place. And Mallory, the actress who plays Mallory is actually a Broadway legend. So I was very excited to see her appear again and for her to be in the MCU. I don’t think there’s many Broadway legends that find themselves in the MCU. But I’m glad that she’s representing her. I thought that was a very sad conversation, but obviously needed to happen because obviously, She Hulk is so upset about what was shown at the gala. And just trying to grapple with that that’s her priority. But like you said, like the Hulk had warned her and Mexico and many other things, you really you’re held to a different standard. They do the plea deal section a little fast. That’s my only kind of question mark in that section, because like you said, Mallory’s like there’s a plea on the table, which as we know, like a plea deal, sometimes just called the deal is an agreement between, you know, the prosecution and the defendant to drop or lessen charges. So it sounds like she accepts it, they put an inhibitor honor, but nothing really else is really talked about. There’s no talk of like, if there’s any geographic restrictions, if there’s any other you know, pending court dates, nothing, which in my mind, the whole episode was kind of looming, because as she’s living her life, I’m like, Okay, is it just the inhibitor?
Greg Lambert 6:33
That was what I kind of thought was the deal was they would not press charges, as long as she were an inhibitor. So and I didn’t see anything else. And we know the rest of the show that she’s able to move it about moving about. So she she goes to blonde skis retreat later, but Blonsky also had a similar deal. And he was able to go to the retreat areas. So true. I don’t know who knows these California deals. I mean, they must be sweet.
Ashley Carlisle 7:07
They must be very lenient. I didn’t realize but yes, they must be in this Marvel Universe. Yeah, she gets out her parents are hilarious. I kind of want more of the parents because they have very few lines. But the lines are just those cringy parent lines where you can tell that they care, but they somehow say the wrong thing, which is just I think everyone relates to
Greg Lambert 7:28
Yep, well as the face of the SuperHuman Law Division, which was She Hulk, and since she can’t be She Hulk anymore, we see her go to her office and packers thing so it doesn’t say whether or not she was fired, but you get the impression that she was fired.
Ashley Carlisle 7:46
My favorite was the See you later litigator mug was one of the first things she puts into her box.
Greg Lambert 7:52
Well, she did not have a lot of personality in that office. So other than her law degree, a few files net, a plant in the coffee cup. That was all she really hold out.
Ashley Carlisle 8:06
Do many lawyers have that much personality in their office? I feel that partners do if you have like a nice swanky corner office. But I don’t know, I feel like the average lawyer just has the diplomas up. Maybe a family photo, maybe one little tchotchke that’s it.
Greg Lambert 8:23
Yeah, I’ve walked the halls here. And and maybe my firm’s a little different, but I see some personality, especially after someone has been here a couple of years. I think the first couple of years. They they don’t necessarily want to expand the personal stuff that’s in the office. But once a case
Ashley Carlisle 8:41
you have to leave like she hooked it. I mean, she wasn’t there that law. Yeah. In the series, she had less than five cases that we saw.
Greg Lambert 8:44
But there was a comment that Nikki said that I think is pretty common, especially in large law firms. And that was, as Jen was packing up, pug and Nikki were there supporting her and, and helping her haul boxes out. But Nikki says, I’m going to continue working for GLK/H because they pay nicely. And that happens a lot that people that may want to leave because of the salary, they end up with what’s called golden handcuffs. So they can’t leave because they can’t necessarily find a job like this that pays the same amount somewhere else. And so for lawyers for staff, a lot of times it makes it really hard to do things that may be actually better for you mentally and physically and psychologically. But, you know, also monetarily and supporting your family and you have a certain lifestyle makes it really hard to to pack up and leave a bad situation.
Ashley Carlisle 9:55
Definitely I do appreciate that. She put all the snacks and drinks in her car. That was funny. That’s a real friend and
Greg Lambert 10:02
it looked like she took some some really nice looking marble.
Ashley Carlisle 10:07
Oh the coasters Yeah, yes.
Greg Lambert 10:09
Looks like she’s took coasters as well, good for her it for her.
Ashley Carlisle 10:12
And then, you know I talked about in the last episode how I just didn’t like how Holloway made her be She-Hulk at work and you know, you could try to unemployment claim with that. Who knows how strong that would be? I guess here if she was fired because she is no longer She Hulk and being She-Hulk was a condition to her employment, she probably could try to sue them. I mean, you can always sue someone even if you’re wrong. But I don’t know if it would be the straightest line of a case. Definitely she could include this in whatever damages she tries to get against intelligence. Yeah. And you know, as we find out who’s kind of the king of this whole backlash against her because she’s lost her job which is going to tarnish her reputation is definitely adds up in the damages category for whoever is the big bad and whoever she’s going to try to see in court.
Greg Lambert 11:00
Yeah, well, we see some TV shots. I liked the TV shots that caused her and alleged superhero. And, and all of the pictures are of the angry She Hulk post. Then she’s got media camped out on her lawn, but I really think it’s funny when she goes to her parents house and the media is camped out there and her dad is spraying them with a water hose to get them off the lawn. Is that okay to do?
Ashley Carlisle 11:30
It’s his property. Unclear. It is funny like living in LA you do see paparazzi occasionally if you are like in a high celeb area, which I do live in one next one, I guess I would say. And anytime I see it depicted on TV, I’m like, that’s kind of how it looks. It just looks more chaotic in real life. Yeah, so I can’t imagine that being outside my house. I would be just as frustrated. I’m sure my dad would also try to spray them with a hose. But yeah, alleged superhero was a bit of a dig.
Greg Lambert 12:04
Yeah, wasn’t nice. Not nice. She hasn’t gotten along very well with the media.
Ashley Carlisle 12:09
And I think she was not media trained and does not have a publicist. These are my guesses unclear from the show. But
Greg Lambert 12:16
So Jen loses her job, she loses eventually, management has to move back in to her parents house. Or in a room that you like,
Ashley Carlisle 12:25
Oh, of course, the early 2000s Legally Blonde poster, Erin Brockovich poster, I think her eye was similar, decided that she was gonna go to law school at a young age to her room, which is populated with all of these images, these female lawyer icons, female divas of law, I guess, as we’ll see later, that term being used. One thing I have had asked recently to me, which was funny was, I guess it’s because these young kids didn’t, you know, they weren’t around what Legally Blonde came out. I’ve had some people ask me why Legally Blonde was so important to like millennial attorneys, especially if they’re women. And I had to think about it. And it’s funny that it was in the bedroom and some of the lines she said, Because I think like She Hulk, the main thing that people liked about it was, she was underestimated. But she still was able to persevere and succeed and be herself. So there’s some commonalities between that and She-Hulk. But I did love the Easter eggs everywhere. And her being in her bedroom trying to like piece together what had happened on some type of True Crime Murder board situation.
Greg Lambert 13:31
Yeah, those are always funny.
Ashley Carlisle 13:32
Who does that in real life?
Greg Lambert 13:35
Ashley Carlisle 13:38
Really true crime like evangelist? I’m not sure I see it, you know, and these other TV shows, but I wonder like, there’s a lot of arts and crafts required for even the bare minimum of a murder board.
Greg Lambert 13:48
Yeah, I’m thinking more people like us would do it in PowerPoint than on a wall.
Ashley Carlisle 13:52
Oh, definitely. Or just a nice list of very organized color coded list, a checklist.
Greg Lambert 13:58
So she’s putting everything together on that crime board. I think Nikki comes by and talks to her as well. And it’s one of the things that kind of it, it runs through the whole show. And that is Jen’s reaction to everything is that the legal system is going to prevail in this that NAT is her way of approaching all issues. We saw it at the end, it was probably you know, she could have fought the Department of damage control people and maybe that would have been fun escaped here would make for great TV. But I think it goes through that whole thing where as a lawyer, she still has faith that the legal system will help her will make things right.
Ashley Carlisle 14:51
Yeah, and she even says that when she’s talking to Mallory in the cell of they must be persecuted which, considering she has superhuman strength I guess that show some restraint. Because once you just want to go hurt them with the powers that you have, you know if this traumatic thing that happened to you, I think it shows a lot of restraint and like you said, just an adoration and a belief in the system that everything is gonna work out.
Greg Lambert 15:15
Yeah, you’re talking about her parents. Her mom shows a video to Nicki Oh, my goodness. Yes, tip, typical mom things but I don’t know if you know, but apparently there’s a lot of people are kind of comparing this to the Alexandria
Ashley Carlisle 15:32
AOC. Yeah, I had not made that comparison. But now it’s like popping in front of my eyes when you say this. That makes a lot of sense.
Greg Lambert 15:40
Yeah, cuz there was a video when she was at I think Boston University when she was an undergrad. Yeah, that where she was dancing. And people have used that online to try to discredit her for things she’s doing now. So it’s, you know, of course,
Ashley Carlisle 15:57
because if you have a brain you cannot dance cannot lose time. So you cannot. Yeah, of course that totally logic follows.
Greg Lambert 16:06
And then Nikki shows her video apparently of a live news feed and of our friend from her prosecution days going on and doing media.
Ashley Carlisle 16:18
The awful guy was named Greg, I was trying to remember his name because I just didn’t like him when I saw him the first time so I didn’t bank
Greg Lambert 16:24
it. Now his name
Ashley Carlisle 16:27
while you’re looking at the name of this very lackluster gentleman, there are a couple of things. So it’s interesting that the AOC connections been talked about because not having looked it up I just assumed they were talking about you know, when Meghan the stallion did the scene and she holds a lot of people trolled it. So I assumed it was some sort of connection to kind of the writers making fun of people having such an opinion on that Meghan the stallion scene. But that’s interesting that it could be this other, you know, probably more apt comparison of if you’re an intelligent female, doing something sometimes people go to really weird lengths to try to discredit you. I guess you can’t dance. The other thing I thought was interesting, which, obviously this is getting into semantics. But I did have a question just popped in my mind as I was watching this. John Doe pleading does exist in California. So she was she was saying that she had to know who these people were to go after them. And that is the best course obviously for like discovery service process all this stuff. It’s a lot cleaner, if you know exactly who harmed you what to put in the complaint, what have you. But John Doe pleading where you just kind of put placeholders for who caused you harm is allowed in some states, it is allowed in California. So technically, she could just go ahead and do that if there was a statute of limitations problem. It just happened to her. So obviously, that’s not going to happen. But I thought that was very interesting. Obviously, they didn’t have they don’t get my gold star for that section. They didn’t have a lawyer put in a line being like I couldn’t do John Doe pleading. But I want to know who did this to me. So let’s search for them on this murder board. They can hire me though I’m available.
Greg Lambert 18:07
I am having a hard time finding who they who that character is. So we’ll we’ll I know. It’s not Greg. I would know if it was Greg,
Ashley Carlisle 18:14
You would know if it was your namesake? That makes sense. But he is awful. And I thought originally, I was like, oh, defamation. And then I realized she’s a public figure in California. So you have to prove malice, which is nearly it’s not impossible, but it’s very hard. So unfortunately, bozos like him can go out in the press and say whatever.
Greg Lambert 18:35
So Jen goes back to her room. And if you notice, all of the posters have been removed. And it’s like a very clean looking room. It’s kind of sad, very sad. She’s given up. She’s Yeah, she starts scrolling through her phone. And there’s kind of an Easter egg as she’s scrolling through the phone, because the lyrics from Never Gonna Give You Up actually shove some of those show up with with the guys named Rick. So there’s a Rick Roll. It goes on in the middle of the scrolling. But, or she tries to reach back out to Emil Blonsky, or the abomination, because she’s in need of a mental break?
Ashley Carlisle 19:13
Yes. Which makes sense, because he also had the inhibitor. He was also in the same cell. He also runs this wellness retreat, will we call it? I don’t know if he’s certified, but he’s running some sort of retreat in California. So that all makes sense. Have they communicated since she left the firm? Is she still representing him? That was my only question. But that’s a very lawyer, persnickety question. So in reality, they’re probably just friends. And she was like, hey, I want to chat. We have this in common.
Greg Lambert 19:41
Yes. Well, one of the things that I think, is she scrolling through the phone is if you’re asking if they communicated earlier, the way that the message was was set up was it was like on a Saturday and so it looked like it was there’s been some communication still going on. With between her and Blonsky, so I think she felt very comfortable taking him up on his offer to go back out. And as she says she’s not running away from her problem. She’s taking a mental health break.
Ashley Carlisle 20:14
To go hang out with the cast of characters, my favorite is Saracen, the weird vampire. Yeah, that’s at the retreat. Yeah,
Greg Lambert 20:21
I hope he hope we see lots more of him and other shows. So there’s a quick scene between the time that she texts and goes out to blonde skis retreat. And that is, her good friend Nikki takes her college video and uploads it to the intelligencia site. Now, it turns out that there’s a reason that she’s doing it. But I’m not sure Jim would be very happy that now this video is out on the you know, this horrible, horrible website, but she uses it in order to gather information and then she ends up getting invited to the what ends up being the same retreat as loskis retreat. And she ends up having to take pug with her because she needs a burrow, to go out and meet with with these people to figure out more information.
Ashley Carlisle 21:19
I thought that was all hilarious. She basically took what the intelligencia did to She-Hulk was like, Oh, this they used bait, so I’m going to use bait, but I’m sure you’re right, that She-Hulk slash John Walters is not happy that this twerking UCLA hoodie video is now somehow on the internet. But she’ll deal with that another day, that problem for another day. However it works. I find it funny that pug is just used as like, he’s not he’s used as typically a woman character would be in like a superhero movie. Like he’s very close, but disposable. We don’t know much about him. We only know that he likes clothes. He’s mildly attractive and that him and Nikki have a relationship. I kind of really enjoy it. But it is very interesting. He’s kind of a throwaway character. Maybe there’s more background that I’m not aware of. But
Greg Lambert 22:07
he’s definitely a major character in the She-Hulk. Congress especially think it’s the Dan Slott run, where they’re at GLK/H. And so he’s a he is attracted to Jen in the comics. But that’s never reciprocated. And I think you kind of get a little bit of this later in the episode when Jen chose attraction for Matt Murdock when he shows back up. But he’s probably the best comic book character that was completely underused in the TV show. But again, yeah, and I think you’re probably right, they probably are using him kind of as a throwaway like a foil. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it’s it’s a shame there’s a lot of a lot of people that I’ve read that would love to have seen more of pug getting more time because he did kind of come off as almost kind of a goof
Ashley Carlisle 23:08
Definitely a goof who loves sneakers. A very, to be honest, a very LA goof, a sneaker head because I trip merchant or whatever he was saying, Yeah, that was hilarious drip broker.
Greg Lambert 23:19
There we go.
Ashley Carlisle 23:21
But yes, he’s the gateway into this awful meeting of HulkKings.
Greg Lambert 23:27
So goes in there. Sure enough, Todd is the person that’s running the show? Turns out, Todd is the Hulk King, which I guess it wasn’t a big surprise to to anyone. It was just kind of too obvious. So obvious. Yeah. And and he admits well, before it goes in, when the one thing I did find interesting was, again, Nikki telling pug when he goes in, whenever he’s referring to women, make sure you call them females. So here’s that again,
Ashley Carlisle 24:03
And how he’s to evolve. So she makes him keep the air pot in so she can help him say awful things because he’s deprogrammed himself. That was hilarious. Also, no one asked about the air pod that just looked funny on screen. I enjoyed it. Yeah. One thing that this the Todd Phelps, gosh, you know, I don’t like him, and I did. He was in my running for being the bad guy. So I was happy but anticlimactic that that was correct. One thing that She-Hulk said when she was going through her, you know, murder board sequence of what had happened to her was that the entity that owned I guess the this platform that led all these guys to meet each other where they’re meeting now at the retreat was owned by a couple of foreign subsidiaries. Right. And that just made me laugh, because you know, he’s a long term client, maybe Holloway had a part of that, who structured that just the whole thing I was like, how is this going to somehow unravel and show other characters are a part of the
Greg Lambert 25:00
Yes, yeah, yeah. And the running things through foreign subsidiaries is is kind of a shortcut in television it to say, Oh, we can never figure out who did who owns this, it’s you know, it’s a, it’s a complete mystery,
Ashley Carlisle 25:14
Like the Rules of Civil Procedure don’t exist exactly.
Greg Lambert 25:19
Then everything just kind of comes off the rails.
Ashley Carlisle 25:24
Now it goes into the, if you’re not a Marvel fan, you slowly get very, very confused and have to pause it at Google, at least, that’s what I felt maybe others have more background knowledge. But this is where it turns from a lawyer show into an MCU love fest slash commentary slash thought piece, in my opinion, which made me not really a huge fan of this episode.
Greg Lambert 25:47
I think you’re right, I think for people that kind of have a an advanced knowledge of the MCU and some of the things that they’ve done across the different phases and some of the things that they have planned for the upcoming phases. I think, if you were inside of that knowledge, it was very exciting to see this because there’s there was so much information that was kind of released. And there was also a fun kind of making fun of some of the commonalities that the MCU fell into, as well. So if you noticed, when we had the big fight scene abomination comes in Jen, you know, immediately goes back into lawyer mode. And it’s like, you’ve broken here you toe I lied for you. Yeah.
Ashley Carlisle 26:40
Which is the worst. Clients do lie. And it is the worst. I can’t imagine being a litigator and having clients lie as a transact transactional attorney when they lie It’s just a headache. But when I can’t imagine they really should teach a class on that and law school
Greg Lambert 26:54
if you ever watched the show House. And so that’s one of the things he always says is all patients lie. And so I think with lawyers all you know, you guys was just come with the assumption that your clients probably hiding something, it may be relevant, it may be stupid, but most people are very uncomfortable coming out and telling you the complete truth.
Ashley Carlisle 27:19
But yes, it was a lot at once because it was like the Abomination Oh, he’s the abomination and then taught admits to everything unprovoked. No questions. hook line and sinker. Oh, yeah. I hacked in. I stole her blood is just divulging Yep.
Greg Lambert 27:35
And then he injects himself with the blood and turns into I was kind of like with you. I thought maybe he was gonna turn into the Red Hulk. But it was
Ashley Carlisle 27:45
Greg Lambert 27:47
If it was definitely bro hook,
Ashley Carlisle 27:50
Definitely Bro Hulk. They needed a new character, a new line of march.
Greg Lambert 27:54
Yeah. And then Titania breaks in for what reason the Hulk breaks in. I mean, it was just it was crazy. Just the amount of action that is going on. And then we have the big fourth wall break. And this is where I think everyone kind of split in. It’s like, oh, wait, what what are we doing here? I think Jen looks at the camera and says, Is this really what you want talking to the audience? And then you see it go to the Disney plus Marvel screen on the television? You know, I think right there. You either bought in order. This was too much for many.
Ashley Carlisle 28:39
Jumping the shark, right? It’s so far fetched that you’re like, wait, what’s happening? Can anything salvageable come out of this. It’s it was so meta as well, which I’m sure as a Marvel fan you’re just used to but as someone who came for a lawyer show the attention to detail, it’s almost startling, because she breaks out of She-Hulk. And then she swings on the what’s the Chi I’m going to say it wrong. The rings that Shang-Chi whatever she she swings on that which at the end we realize why into the Marvel behind the scenes, the attention to detail is so startling. It’s wild. And then the marketing of just the Disney plus screen. They got free promo for the entirety of their universe for a solid 30 seconds and that frame. Yep. Every other IP they have coming out which is there.
Greg Lambert 29:30
So she jumps into the I think it’s the Marvel assembled TV show which are always the behind the scenes. At typically after a movie or after a show as completed. They do this assembled show which kind of talks through the process of it. And she ends up going to the main office. And if you caught the QR code, there’s yeah Did you did you look at it?
Ashley Carlisle 30:01
I followed the QR code and I’m getting a free comic book my first comic book, did you get a free She-Hulk comic book?
Greg Lambert 30:08
Did you understand why it pointed to that specific comic book?
Ashley Carlisle 30:12
No, not at all. I just wanted the Free Comic Book.
Greg Lambert 30:14
So that was the Savage She-Hulk number 50. What happened and that is, Jen Walters, She Hulk in the comic book sold her rights to Marvel Comics. And she is going to the headquarters of Marvel Comics, and is complaining about the way that they are telling her story. So that’s how that comic book relates back to what’s going on in this scene. So it’s, again, that is
Ashley Carlisle 30:46
so wild, the meta.
Greg Lambert 30:50
Meta within meta.
Ashley Carlisle 30:52
I mean, I guess now that I know that it makes me appreciate this more, because there’s some, you know, historical backing for the writers having this very weird plot point. But until you told me that this just all I thought was some sort of weird, I don’t know, Marvel. Plot cleanup, which I was mad that that had to be in a nine episode show about a female lawyer like why why this show?
Greg Lambert 31:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now? Well, and I think the reason is, is because of those of the history with the comic books of her, literally, like ripping the comic book open to go from one scene to another, talking directly to the writer, John Byrne, during his run. So this was not anything, if you were familiar with that series, this was not a surprise, and how it kind of ran parallel to some of the storylines, that that had happened in the comic books itself. But there’s not a lot of you know, I’m a 54 year old man who read these comic books, when you know, when I was a preteen and teenager, that’s a pretty narrow market of people to understand that. And so I think, yeah, it’s, there was a lot going on that, again, the meta within the meta, the fourth wall, they’re going in and actually talking to the real writers of the show and trying to define how how that was going on, you had to really take a step back and just suspend belief for a bit and talk to them. But, you know, I thought it was a good look at the whole process. I think that for Marvel, as they’re going from Phase four to five, that I think this is kind of closing some holes on it. You know, she meets Kevin, which is, of course, a direct reference to Kevin Feige, who’s been in control of everything this whole time. There’s all kinds of theories on that.
Ashley Carlisle 33:02
Also, the Marvel NDA, I’ve loved the jokes about the Marvel NDA, I love I tried to look up who the receptionist was, because they gave him airtime. So I thought maybe he was someone in the Marvel universe that I should have known, but I couldn’t figure that out. But I love how he makes her sign the NDA, she makes the joke of going through it how long it is, just because even in LA, it’s known, they have a insanely long, detailed NDA, they do not negotiate. It’s the strictest in the business. And basically, you sign it, you give up your phone, even if you just go visit there, get an email from them, get a link from them anything. And I love that they made a joke of it. Yeah. Well, actually in a lawyer show. Yeah. I was like, yes.
Greg Lambert 33:45
And there was an I can’t remember who the actor was. But during an interview, said that, you know, he can’t say anything, because they could literally take his house, if he said something. So it was like, Yeah, and I’m not going to disclose anything. Everyone signs an NDA Marvel’s The MCU Disney, they take it extremely seriously. And And apparently, they really, really let the actors and people that work on the set know this. And if you saw there were a bunch of Captain America signs that were up. And if you read that it was the I want you to put your cell phone up, you know, and
Ashley Carlisle 34:27
Oh, I didn’t see that. That’s hilarious. And apparently, it was a real Oh, I guarantee if that NDA is that long. I bet every screen is confiscated or covered or encrypted or something or there’s some sort of damages it listed in the NDA, my favorite what she signed the NDA just to be, I guess, caught by security. Like that was the only purpose for the NDA. Also, just thinking about this legally, which doesn’t really matter. It was just a joke, a throwaway joke, but all of this is on camera. So anything that the public see Is is no longer in the NDA, it’s publicly disclosed by Marvel itself. So I thought that was funny as well. I chuckled.
Greg Lambert 35:08
So she goes in and she was first she meets with the writers. I think these were the actual writers.
Ashley Carlisle 35:16
I think they’re the actual writers. I follow Jessica Gao on Twitter. And I recognize her. So I would assume that the actual writers Yep.
Greg Lambert 35:23
And she gets to go in and she meets Kevin, the robot, again, the kind of a creation of Kevin Feige, who’s been over the whole storytelling. And the one thing that that she gets, well, she puts out the argument that look, this is a legal comedy show. Right? And she
Ashley Carlisle 35:44
makes it in her closing argument. Yes. Since it is a legal show, they give her a closing argument, which I guess means Kevin’s the judge, and were the other side or the writers or the other side. I thought that was hilarious.
Greg Lambert 35:54
Yeah, yeah. So it’s interesting, because I think she only argues, you know, how are we going to change this? We’re changing it from night. Today, we’re going to change, you know that the Todd doesn’t become the Hulk. Titania still there. I think she said, Bruce, that the the Hulk should not be there. So he disappeared should be cleaning up her message should be cleaning up her messes. And so
Ashley Carlisle 36:21
And she wanted Daredevil back. Well, she wanted more love interest.
Greg Lambert 36:25
Yes. She she’s got to learn to negotiate better on things. She does she but she’s very attached to her friends. And you know, relationships. And so you know, that she’s argued for Nikki to be your paralegal and for Daredevil to come back. And so she’s she was in a much stronger position, I think, then than that. But the one thing then in I don’t know if you noticed this, but Kevin says that you won’t be able to come back and talk to me because she’s talking about the second season. And he goes, You can’t come back to me, I fixed that glitch. And if you noticed, she never breaks the fourth wall again, the rest of the episode.
Ashley Carlisle 37:06
So that was going to be a question I have for you, because I did hear that. But I wasn’t sure if it was the fourth wall or if you know, I fixed the glitch of you being able to break in and wreak havoc on the Marvel Studios. Yeah, I wasn’t sure which one he was referring to.
Greg Lambert 37:20
Yeah. So the other thing to think about is does this means that when Deadpool comes in, he won’t be able to break the fourth wall anymore, either.
Ashley Carlisle 37:31
Oh, wow. So that’s a lot of Deadpool is comedy. So hopefully, for Ryan Reynolds and CO that is not the case.
Greg Lambert 37:38
All right, so we get back into the show, and well,
Ashley Carlisle 37:44
so just so I can make sure I have this right. The only thing that Kevin really changed was that Todd has not bro Hulk yet.
Greg Lambert 37:55
Right? And right, and Hulk did not come in to save the day.
Ashley Carlisle 38:00
So Todd is still his measly awful glasses Todd Phelps.
Greg Lambert 38:05
Exactly. No, I think because while he’s still the leader of the intelligencia so and still Hulk King, he’s still Stoller blood, unfortunately, he still took over, you know, all of our personal information, he still displayed that in public. So yeah, there’s still still pretty slimy he’s just not a Hulk
Ashley Carlisle 38:26
As your as your Los Angeles local council in California with counsel, I looked up to see if it was a if there was a cause of action for stealing someone else’s blood or genetic material from person to person. Unclear, which was terrifying to find out, apparently, like, you know, ancestry.com, whatever California passed a series of regulations they have to abide by. Police need a warrant, but person to person, there’s not a lot of laws out there. Which was really terrifying. So let’s kind of this could have been done totally fine.
Greg Lambert 38:58
All right. So yeah, we get back and we it ends up I think the next scene is Todd is in handcuffs. And again, he’s expecting her to beat him up. And instead she’s like, I’m gonna see you in court. And once again, we see Jen Walter She-Hulk. It’s not about the strength, it’s about the rule of law. And that’s what she’s going to rely on to to fix the situation. So, you know, comes back to turns out this is a lawyer show.
Ashley Carlisle 39:31
So perhaps she’s putting back up the Legally Blonde poster.
Greg Lambert 39:34
What one can hope one can hope. See, so where do we go from here? Oh, we do get Daredevil literally dropping in out of the sky. So that that was interesting. And Titania
Ashley Carlisle 39:47
is a fan of Daredevil. Yeah. So hopefully that won’t be a power struggle. If there is a season two.
Greg Lambert 39:53
Well, that and it was nice because I think he appreciated the fact that she didn’t know who he was. Because if you remember In the last episode, and didn’t know who Daredevil was, right?
Ashley Carlisle 40:05
We combination seems to be a good die. We think other than breaking the inhibitor and going into the form of abomination. He seems to help Jen try to get out of the situation to like fights the Hulk. He doesn’t seem to fight the pro violation and whatever conditions she’s negotiated. So I guess he’s a good guy, which was surprising to me.
Greg Lambert 40:24
Yeah, we’ll see. I think there’s, there’s some more shows coming up where he may or may not be involved. So time will tell. And then the the final scene in the show is we see Jen on her while she Hulk on her way to court to, I think, to go after Todd Phelps, and is questioned by a reporter. And we kind of still see the same ol same ol going on. You want to cover with the reporters?
Ashley Carlisle 40:58
Well, the reporter said many things at the top, he helped us by saying that her charges were cleared, I guess her inhibitor is gone, which is why she can be in the She-Hulk for which that’s the only helpful thing he said. Then he proceeds to ask her, you know, if she’s excited for the case, blada blada, blada. If people should fear her in and out of the courtroom, to which she says basically, yes, meaning she’s going to pull a daredevil potentially and do the vigilante stuff as well, on the side, which, you know, because she is a public figure that could create all sorts of issues for her. And then at the end, after, you know, we got some good information, he decides to ask what she is wearing, which is the Hollywood inside joke for women are always just we’re level down to our appearance of being judged for that. And then when she refuses to answer he calls her the difficult diva of law, which I want merch to be made of fist, I want to wear this shirt everywhere. Difficult Diva of Law, it’s very long, but it’s my new catchphrase.
Greg Lambert 41:59
Let’s see if we can get your shirt like that says in the in credits. I think there was only one thing that I saw. And I think you saw it too, with how abomination was able to become abomination without triggering the inhibitor signal. And that was he attached it to one of the chickens.
Ashley Carlisle 42:21
So hilarious. How did that I guess he did have the one hiccup the one time that they were like, Oh, he took off his inhibitor. But I guess he perfected his science.
Greg Lambert 42:30
Yeah, well, maybe maybe. Princess silk feather? Is that the name of the ridiculous. He said he had an incident with an electric fence. Maybe maybe the chicken ran into the electric fence and cause the inhibitor to short out.
Ashley Carlisle 42:47
And so he didn’t totally lie to Jen Walter. She just didn’t ask great questions once again. ,
Greg Lambert 42:52
And then the last thing we do get a post credit scene and we see one come in and take Emil Blonsky, away to Kamar Taj. And so we know that abomination is not in prison that he is with Wong and so you know, fingers crossed, we will see him in other shows down the road.
Ashley Carlisle 43:20
So definitely another parole violation.
Greg Lambert 43:24
Ashley Carlisle 43:25
Jen will be busy the next business day dealing with this?
Greg Lambert 43:29
Yes, she will. So that wraps up the show. But I specifically wanted to talk to you about what you thought about the marketing department at GLK/H. For this show that, you know, here we have essentially a large law firm, I would assume it’s like an am law 100 style law firm. And you’re the CMO of GLK/H. Now I’m giving you that role. How would you fix this?
Ashley Carlisle 44:04
Well, I don’t think they had a marketing department or if they did they were asleep or busy doing other things. People may be hopefully they’re not surprised. But I think people would be surprised how many marketing professionals there are. And these big law firms out there paid a considerable amount of money because although they’re not doing the most cutting edge, innovative, you know, marketing campaigns, what have you. It’s really important to keep law firms being talked about in the press clients, you know, spotlighted, the wind, spotlighted, making thought leaders out of the partners and the various associates there and just being professional and kind of always up to date. That’s a very large job when you have hundreds of attorneys working in one organization. Obviously here, they just didn’t include the marketing people. They have probably the best marketing cache you could have, which is a superhero, who was also a lawyer gonna read a division. And if I was the CMO, obviously I would have her everywhere there would be a She-Hulk podcast, we’d be interviewing all of these superheroes that I guess they were doing pro bono work for hoping that Felicity would help out which publicity is great, that’s kind of separate from marketing, but can be used together. But also the media training, as we talked about, she obviously hated the media wasn’t confident, wasn’t sure what her kind of story points were on how her image was within the firm, that should have been straightened out on day one. When Holloway met her in the hallway, the marketing person should have been with him saying, hey, so here’s your media training, do you need help with your budget? Do you need help with your office? Do you need help with all these things? Here’s the story of how you’re the head of this group here. That just didn’t happen. So I don’t know if it was part of the story of Holloway, just not giving her a chance to succeed, like giving her kind of the bare minimum and like not supporting her along the way. But she really had no marketing support in any of this, which is kind of seeing when you see the Titania, marketing genius, a couple of episodes later, because this lady has probably, I’m guessing an awful makeup line of products. They make fun of how everything’s basically the same thing just repurposed into different vials. Yet her marketing was amazing. There was storytelling. You know, she had social media marketing, she was obsessed with her target, which was Jen, so much so that everywhere Jen turned, there were some sort of marketing asset for her to see that was all streamlined. So I kind of think marketing was used in the show, or the lack thereof, to kind of show that Holloway just didn’t support her, and that she was very awkward. And she didn’t really have the support. She needed to kind of grow into herself and take ownership. But also, if there was a marketing person, we wouldn’t have had the whole gin finds her footing storyline.
Greg Lambert 46:49
Mm hmm, true, true. But that’s why our getting’s there’s so
Ashley Carlisle 46:53
Storytelling is everything. Yeah. But no, I think people would be shocked the real life marketing of a big law firm like this, versus what we showed in the show, because as you know, like the huge law firms, I mean, a CMO at one of these might be making almost a million dollars, like, it’s a very important job. And they’re working around the clock, and they’re constantly producing content to make the firm look like they are winning all day and night. So they would have gin out there all the time, just a content machine as she Hulk, that would have been a huge part of her job.
Greg Lambert 47:24
I know one of the things that we do, especially when you have a lateral hire, like Jen was coming in, that, you know, she was on an associate coming in, she was working somewhere else is coming in, especially if you’re going to label her as the face of this SuperHuman Law Division, which essentially is a practice group and industry group, I guess, that, you know, the marketing team would be in full force, that they would have a press release ready to go. There would be time set up on how how do we want to get you exposure? Who do we want you to interview with? How do we want to tell your story? And so yeah, there’s a there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes because especially with a practice group like this, that, you know, there were certain things that were big moneymakers, Megan, Megan, the stallion, Todd, chain with leaping frog where they you know, people that had money, but she also handled a couple of pro bono cases. And so, you know, it’s just one of those things where, you know, if you’re going to be the face, everything you do has to help facilitate the success of that group.
Ashley Carlisle 48:44
Yeah, the bottom line and revenue, especially if a lot of the cases in that group are just pure publicity, that revenue has to happen somewhere else, whether like he was saying, Oh, they’re so excited to have a HELOC on the case or other clients think it’s a power grab that needs to be publicized all day, every day. So yes, I think there was a severe lack of marketing for She-Hulk. But like I said, I think it was kind of on purpose. And I think that’s how the Titania was a foil. And that’s part of why they showed the product launch in her pop up in LA with the experiential marketing. I think Titania is someone who knows who she is, even if she’s not doing the right thing all the time. And I think Jen takes too much thought and mindfulness and to what she’s doing and what her path is going to be. And so it was a longer burn into having confidence in being the duel Jen Walters She Hulk?
Greg Lambert 49:33
Yeah. Well, I think that puts a bow on the show for us.
Ashley Carlisle 49:39
Well, but I want to hear your final thoughts on the whole season. Now that you have recounted all of these.
Greg Lambert 49:45
Well, I think it fit exactly what I was expecting. And that was it was going to be and again I come at this with some previous knowledge of the She-Hulk in the comic series, whether It was the original Stan Lee, or the John Byrne version or the Dan slot version. And it fit exactly what I had imagined. I think it also predicted how people would respond to it. And played on that. So that, you know, a lot of the trolls that are in the show, I mean, are almost run parallel to the trolls that are in the real world that were, you know, slamming the show itself. So I thought they were they were really good about kind of predicting how people were going to react to certain things, you know, as a legal show, as with all television legal shows, you can’t go into a show like this and expect it to be very realistic, you have to suspend belief on on a number of things. I think there were a few things they could have tightened up on it and wouldn’t have taken a lot of effort to find out what would a real law firm do in the situation? What would a real attorney do? What would a real judge do? And this, you know, and still been able to have done it in, you know, 25 minutes? If and when there’s a season two, I really hope that Marvel reaches out and talks and has a has a legal consultant.
Ashley Carlisle 51:21
We are available Marvel! Yeah, yeah. So Greg and I are available.
Greg Lambert 51:25
And some of us are local. Not me. But you. It’s done in Georgia. So we’ll have to
Ashley Carlisle 51:32
The Marvel office is in Burbank. That’s true. And I will sign the NDA.
Greg Lambert 51:38
I would sign an NDA as well. But I love the show. From from beginning to end, it was exactly what I wanted. It fit the character that I that I grew up with and knew very well, I think it again, I myself really love shows that have strong female characters in them. I have also started hesitating, using the word female.
Ashley Carlisle 52:06
I know I was second guess myself now because of all the jokes which are very spot on. Yeah.
Greg Lambert 52:10
And and so, you know, I was very satisfied with this. And I’m going to love the fact that, you know, I think the prediction is that She Hulk will show back up in The Avengers, there may be a role for her and the Fantastic Four as well. So Tatiana, the actress is a great actress wonderful. Just I you know, I’d loved her I didn’t watch a lot of Orphan Black, but the way she was able to handle so many different roles and Orphan Black I think you saw her acting chops here that she felt like Jen Walters and you know, watching some of the behind the scenes with the CGI where she was actually doing and moving as the She Hulk as well. I thought she did a great job. The whole Daredevil introduction and and the the romance of the potential Walters and Murdock are Murdock and Walters law firm. Love, love that concept. And so yeah, I’m I’m I was quite happy with the show. So let me ask you what was your overall opinion of the show?
Ashley Carlisle 53:18
So as someone who’s not a Marvel superfan, or even really a strong Marvel fan, I just occasionally watch movies as my husband does. So I really didn’t have much of the backstory here. I was coming for a legal comedy. I think it definitely had moments where that resonated by the eighth episode I was with Daredevil I was really enjoying the swing of things. I think how they ended it is a little severe if you’re not a Marvel fan. But overall, I enjoyed the series. I think the last episode just ended on kind of a late what’s going on for me just because I really had to do research to figure out what all of these little details added up to which when you do the research, it’s incredible to see the like I said the attention to detail the meta on meta jumping the shark. I mean, it is phenomenal the amount of work that’s put into it. But as a casual viewer who came for a legal show, it ended in a very odd way. So I’m excited. Hopefully there’s a season two, I hope there’s more Daredevil. I think that love story could be very fun, especially as she decides to kind of lead his lifestyle of justice in and out of the courtroom, which will probably create a whole lot of issues. I’m excited for it. I liked it. Overall, it was a slow burn for me and it ended kind of weird, but I think she is an exceptional actress. I think this would be very hard for anyone and she made it believable. I also believe that she took a lot of stock in the fact that she was being an attorney too, even though some of it wasn’t 100%. It was done very well.
Greg Lambert 54:48
Yep. And my favorite non lead character is Nikki, the paralegal she just knocked every scene she was in. She just knocked it out of the park. I absolutely love Have that character and the actress that played her did such a great job. And you want more justice for pug, and I want more justice for pug. pug is a you know, a real strong character in the comics and I would like to see that. But again, we’re talking, you know, 25 minute long F TV episodes, there’s only so much you can pack in there without it turning into season three of heroes, which may be super meta reference. were things that the storylines just got too complicated. So, all right, any final thoughts?
Ashley Carlisle 55:35
I hope there’s a season two Me too.
Greg Lambert 55:37
Me too. Well, Ashley Carlisle, thank you very much for coming in and help helping us wrap up the series for now. Or at least the season finale, hopefully not the series finale. And hopefully not yet. So thank you once again.
Ashley Carlisle 55:50
Yes, thank you so much.
Greg Lambert 55:52
It’s been a lot of fun. All right. And as Joshua would say stay super everybody.