The Geek in Review Ep. 123 – Eugene Giudice on Reflections During a Pandemic

Transcript

Eugene Giudice  0:00

I like the title of the podcast. It’s a very nice, very nice portmanteau.

Marlene Gebauer  0:05

And I like it when you abbreviate it because then it’s like tiger.

Greg Lambert  0:10

I hadn’t thought of that.

Eugene Giudice  0:12

Yeah, yeah.

Marlene Gebauer  0:22

Welcome to The Geek in Review. The podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene Gebauer.

Greg Lambert  0:29

And I’m Greg Lambert. So we learned a lot when we interview our guests, including the proper pronunciation of their names. And yes, I’m talking to you Kevin Iredell. This week, we have Eugene Giudice, from Dentons, who not only taught us the correct way to say his name, but also talks about his book covering his daily writings during the pandemic. And he shares a few passages and brings us back to certain points in time during the past 15 months.

Marlene Gebauer  0:58

So stick around for that. But now let’s get to this week’s information inspirations.

Marlene Gebauer  1:17

Wolters Kluwer just released the results of the 2021 future ready lawyers survey moving beyond the pandemic. The survey was issued in March 2021, and includes insights from over 700 legal professionals in nine European countries and the US for both law departments and law firms. Some of the key findings of interests are that firms and departments are in sync in some respects and not at all another’s. Right, both expect to increase their tech spend. Top changes are greater use of tech, greater collaboration and transparency between departments and firms, and increased emphasis on innovation firms also focused on greater specialization of legal services offered and departments had a focus on increased use of AFAs. Big Data was also a focus for both departments and firms. 75% of legal departments and 69% of firm respondents said predictive analytics will have an impact on them over the next three years, yet neither understand these technologies very well. Greg, I sense a teaching moment here.

Greg Lambert  2:23

Yeah, there’s there’s always teachable moments here when especially when you talk about firms and in house.

Marlene Gebauer  2:28

That’s right. So tech areas of focus for firms include a signature document automation and creation, collaboration tools for contract creation, and review and workflow and cloud based services. Departments are similar but include E management and E voting solutions. So you know, I’ve actually used some of those e voting software’s for proxies, and it’s pretty cool. Both firms and departments felt they were not prepared when it comes to key tech, client focus, and organizational and staffing issues important to their firms. So this is all the more reason to give serious thought to developing a business mode where agility in these areas is expected in order to succeed. Firms and departments continue to be at a disconnect when it comes to service with nearly 70% of department respondents saying they expect more than their outside counsel delivers. Now this could be its own podcast in itself. But I and along with a panel of experts are going to do our very best to suggest solutions to this and other questions arising from the survey in a just one hour seminar this Wednesday. The pod will drop after that, but I hope Walters Kluwer, post the recording so you can all check it out.

Greg Lambert  3:42

Yeah, I saw that you were in that. Marlene, Roger Williams law school in Rhode Island is now requiring all of its 2L’s to take a course on race and the foundations of American law, and that will start in the fall semester. The faculty there developed this course last summer after the George Floyd murder in order to teach students the historical underpinnings of law and regulations and the effect that it has on race in the United States. And while a number of states are working hard to ban the teaching of critical race theory and including right here in Texas, the Dean of the Roger Williams University Law School, Gregory W. Bowman says that this course is not about any type of indoctrination, as critics have called it. Bowman said in a Boston Globe interview that it’s not indoctrination to give law students the skills and understanding they need to succeed as lawyers. That is training. He also went on to say, change is not indoctrination. Change is progress. So in addition to this last week’s Tuesday podcast of make me smart talked with UCLA law professor Cheryl Harris, about UCLA’s critical race studies program. So If you’re interested in what critical race theory is and what it is not, I really suggest checking out that episode along with looking at UCLA his program, which was actually the first I think the first law program on critical race theory.

Marlene Gebauer  5:15

That’s really interesting. I attended a seminar put on by Foley and Lardner blockchain and tackling. A legal and business update on NTFs In sports and entertainment.

Greg Lambert  5:28

I can’t tell you the number of meetings I’ve been in where the CFO just says, Alright, everyone just keep blocking and tackling out there. So, I’m glad somebody was able to spin that.

Marlene Gebauer  5:40

They must have been in on your meetings. So, NFT’s are non fungible tokens. So blockchain right. So some examples you may have heard of are the NBA top shots, which is digital sports memorabilia, SORARE, which sells NFT’s for power ups for fantasy sports games, watch skins, which as you might guess, are skins for your smartwatch. So you can also sell digital music and art experiences NFT’s and future areas can include licensing and sports betting. Although I think actually last time I was in Vegas, I think that was actually already happening.

Greg Lambert  6:20

Yeah, if it’s happening is happening in Vegas.

Marlene Gebauer  6:23

That’s true. So several attorneys from Foley and a couple guest speakers talked about the intersection of the emerging business models and the law. The guest speakers won an entrepreneur and won a GC for the Charlotte Hornets, which was actually one of the first sports teams to enter this space, talked about what they’re doing and where they think things are going. Now there’s there’s such a wealth of opportunity for law here because there isn’t a canon of law specific to the space. It’s it’s just too new. And right now everyone is relying on traditional contract law and IP principles. And the older precedent apparently doesn’t always fit the new scenarios. But as NFT’s move beyond the ownership model, the feeling of the group is that a unique body of law will emerge around NFT’s. So some of the legal questions around NFT’s are, how are they categorized? How are they regulated? How are they taxed? Does IP flow out of the transaction or is the NFT IP itself? Areas NFT’s touch where law will be critical will be protection of the content providers, interpretation of the commercial agreements like the smart contracts, minting of NFT’s so how they become part of blockchain and the regulation of the marketplace where tokens are sold and transmitted. Now, Greg, I’m already thinking of how we can use NFT’s in relation to the podcast.

Greg Lambert  7:46

I see the dollar signs in here. Well, I have a couple of updates on the new model of law firm ownership that we’ve talked about over the past few months and I just saw were a committee from the Florida Supreme Court approved an initial plan to test a regulatory sandbox similar to Utah’s which allows ownership of law firms by those who are not licensed attorneys in that state. The law practice innovation laboratory program was approved as they put it in concept only at this moment, and the committee will still need to hash out some of the details of the program. But it seems that they’re heading in that direction. And for those who are not familiar with the details that the Utah Supreme Court have set up, I highly suggest listening to Steven Poor’s latest podcast a pioneers and Pathfinders where he talks with Lucy Rekha, the executive director of the Utah Office of Legal Services Innovation. In that podcast, she she really breaks down and explains exactly what they’re doing. They’re in Utah, and how they are expanding the legal services and how they are protecting customers there in Utah by monitoring and measuring the efforts of those services operating within the regulatory sandbox. So it was it was a really good interview. And I learned quite a bit from the discussion. And we mentioned I think the last time we talked about this, that if California jumped in on the sandbox that other states would follow. I may have to amend that a little bit Marlene and say Florida goes in, there might be a number of other states beyond those western states who may jump in as well.

Marlene Gebauer  9:31

Yeah, I agree. We should get Lucy on the podcast. We should do that.

Greg Lambert  9:37

And that’s it for this week’s information inspiration.

Marlene Gebauer  9:45

When we all started working from home last March, we each did something to help us keep sane and hopefully engaged with our families, our friends and our peers. Today’s guests found a unique way of doing just that with a Daily Note to all of the above after more than a year Daily inspirational emails, he put them into a book. And he’s here today to share some of those musings with us.

Marlene Gebauer  10:08

We’d like to welcome Eugene Giudice, Senior Research Services Training Specialists at Dentons. And the author of the recently released book, Reflections During a Pandemic: Thoughts While Sheltering In Place. Eugene, welcome to The Geek in Review. And before you say anything, Did I get it right?

Eugene Giudice  10:23

You got it spot on. And it’s my pleasure to be here on The Geek in Review.

Greg Lambert  10:28

Well, Eugene, again, thanks. Thanks for being here. And you know, you along with the rest of us, you’ve spent the past 15 months working remotely and adjusting to the work and social environment. But unlike the rest of us, you’ve decided to take this creative approach to the isolation by writing daily messages, and emailing them out to a group of people sharing your thoughts along with some quotes to help you through this period. So what was your reasoning behind taking on the self imposed task?

Eugene Giudice  11:00

Self imposed is indeed a good way of putting it. I like to look at it in in two ways. There’s the impetus for doing this. And then what informs me doing this. The impetus is real practical. When we went on shelter in place work from home, we had an all staff all attorney conference call here at Dentons. And our CEO Mike McNamara said to the attorneys, reach out to your client, see how you can help them during this time. But he also said to them, don’t just talk about business, talk to them as human beings, how are they faring up? Do they need someone to talk to just to blow off some steam? Are they having challenges? Be there as a human being for them. Then he, he turned to the staff and said, it’s important that we all find ways to stay connected during this time. And so that was the impetus for doing these messages for doing the coffee talks is all as a method to keep people connected during this pandemic, because we’re either going to get through this together, or we’re not going to get to us as individuals. All right. So that was really the impetus for doing this. Now, I like to think that what informs me in the writing is a lot of things. I mean, the quotations themselves are great fodder, and great way to bring out, you know, things for people to chew on. But also, you know, my whole life experience, the fact that I’m a practicing Roman Catholic, the fact that I’m an information specialists that I spend time in consulting, even stuff like that, I’m a Zionist, all of that sort of informs the work, and informs the writing. And I think it really brings a richness to what you see on the printed page,

Marlene Gebauer  12:44

I really like that, you know, be there as as a human being for them, that really resonates with me. So who were these messages for? Who were they directed to?

Eugene Giudice  12:55

Well, it sort of grew grew naturally. First, it was just my own team, the research team that I am a member of, then I said, Well, you know, there’s some people in the office that might appreciate this. And, you know, so I added people to the list, and I said, Well, you know, so and so from outside the firm or so and so that I know, from Knights of Columbus would appreciate this, a relative relatives, you know, my own family would appreciate this. So it sort of began to grow. And that’s how the distribution came to. It’s over 300 at this point. So I mean, it’s primarily folks in the in the in the profession, in the either the legal profession or the information profession. But it’s not meant for just them, it’s meant for anybody who can use this and just, you know, people that I’ve met, and talked to and seen, and they hear about it, I’ve had individuals who are on the list, they say, Oh, my cousin I told them about and they want in, so they get on the list. So there were some people there that I have, like, if they walked into my house, I would not know them.

Greg Lambert  13:53

Well, besides extending your social circle, and professional circle, what’s kind of been the reaction that you’ve been getting from people over the past 15 months?

Eugene Giudice  14:04

It’s been it’s been positive, I would say, across the board, it’s been positive. Now, people may not always agree with what I say. But that’s great, because that fosters the conversation. And what it does is it just by virtue of having the conversation, we we stay connected as humans, I think of a person, one of my colleagues at a former firm, she is very much involved in social justice. And we’ve had back and forth about how some of the things have inspired her and we talked about inclusion a lot and she asked why did you use inclusion? Why didn’t you use this other word I said, well, to use inclusion means I have to bring you in. I don’t talk about toleration because toleration, one, there’s a power dynamic. There’s the tolerate or in the tolerated, but then second, I can tolerate them and still keep you at arm’s length. If I’m really going to be serious about this, if I’m going to include you, that means that you and I have to hit develop some level of context, some level for want of a better word of intimacy through inclusion. And so, you know, I learned from her she learned from me, she told me to think about this other person who’s writing in a similar fashion has written in a similar fashion, you know, it makes for a very rich, dynamic and rich conversation.

Greg Lambert  15:19

Eugene, we asked you to pick a couple of passages for us to read. Would you mind taking the first one and reading it for

Eugene Giudice  15:26

sure. The first one was from April 17 of 2020.

Greg Lambert  15:31

It was pretty and pretty early in

Eugene Giudice  15:33

pretty early on. And I think it’s, it’s significant in a couple of ways, because it speaks about hope. And I think that’s what I was battling against a dearth, or a paucity of hope in people during this time. And that and and I also say that, you know, my mother passed away on the seventh of April. Now, she had been ailing for some time, so she did not die from COVID. But because of the COVID restrictions, we were only able to hold her Memorial about two weeks ago. Alright. So I think this was appropriate at that time. I don’t look upon this as my, my grief project or anything like that. And it wasn’t for me to impose that and others on the reader saying, you know, I’m doing this out of grief. But I think this one, because it was so close to my mom’s passing, was really helpful to me. So let me read it to you. goes, it starts every they all start with Good morning. Good afternoon. So it says Good morning, everyone. It’s a snowy morning here in Chicago, will spring ever truly arrive? It’s been a tough week for many. We read in the press of job losses, cutbacks on all fronts. And maybe we are apt to lose faith and hope in each other. Here’s something to consider. Hope is like peace. It is not a gift from God. It is a gift, we only can give one another. And that was said by Elie Wiesel the Nobel laureate. And then I go on to say, we hear a lot about hope and how it comes from within. But Mr. Wiesel turns that on its head, he says that we get hope from each other. Maybe that is the thought for the weekend, I guess this must have been a Friday, that the hope that we can carry can be contagious. And let’s face it, we know a lot more about contagion than we did six weeks ago. Maybe it is our duty for one of a better word, to carry and express hope. Not so much for ourselves. But perhaps the people we come in contact with. Hope may be the tremendous categorical imperative that manual can speaks of. And the n it says a close together with you in spreading hope.

Greg Lambert  17:40

If I’m remembering right, about mid April, was when a number of the job reports started coming out. And I think we lost like, what 13 million jobs? Yeah.

Eugene Giudice  17:52

You know, I think I think that was the point where I was thinking, you know, this is not going to be a 90 day wonder, because when I started this, I figured, oh, 90 days, everybody, oh, they’ll get this sorted out, we’ll all go back to the office, my little 90 day project will be over. And here we are, what 18 months later, and I’m still doing?

Greg Lambert  18:11

Well, like I said, we were always two weeks from ending this thing, but we never could never could do it.

Marlene Gebauer  18:18

It’s good, we sort of go back and look at these, you know, your discussion points, you know, from further back to kind of see where the mindset was, then, you know, I was I was just thinking, I was thinking back to when we did our original podcast about people talking about this pandemic, before we had any idea. And I mean, the, you know, the folks that we were referencing, you know, they’re saying, look, this is going to be big, but at that point, nobody really understood just how big it was going to be. And, and so again, I think it’s important to, to kind of look back and just sort of see like, okay, where where were we at at different points in this epidemic?

Eugene Giudice  18:59

It’s interesting to note that as things progress, I mean, when you look at this on the printed page, it takes about maybe maybe three quarters of a page, but as things got, you know, went on, I mean, the the pieces become longer. And I don’t know if that’s a function of experience and writing or just the depth that people like Mike, like we all are plumbing in terms of our own thought processes and asking questions about who we are and what we’re doing and what all this means. But it was funny because I thought I was gonna get one on a page. You know, in a Word doc, it’s always keeping track one on a page in Word doc and so yeah, now it’s like you know, if it goes if it goes less than a half a page I’m surprised

Greg Lambert  19:41

was it was it like me in college or I would expand the font and the

Eugene Giudice  19:46

funny you should say that. I don’t know if this is appropriate for this. Yes, we all did that. But you know when I had this prepared for print on demand I sent it to a guy from is anyone ever used Fiverr?

Greg Lambert  20:04

Yes,

Eugene Giudice  20:04

yeah, yeah. Okay, I the cover art for the book Fiverr getting it formatted for print Fiverr. So I sent him this document. And it was at that point, it was like maybe 170-180 pages, I figured, well, you know, he’s going to format it up, and maybe it’ll be 200 pages, it comes back as a 420-page document. I’m saying you’ve got to be kidding me.

Greg Lambert  20:26

So how many pages did it

Eugene Giudice  20:29

in the in the bound volume? Right now? It’s 402. And I have a friend who said, You know, I should I should have done it in volumes, sort of like his, you know, box like, but, you know, I said, No, it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna be more than one volume? No, of course not. You know,

Greg Lambert  20:45

it’s actually I’m holding the copy of the book. It’s it’s very, very readable. So it’s in most of them are one page.

Marlene Gebauer  20:53

We know the pandemic wasn’t the only major shift in the country during the past 15 months. There were also racial reckonings. How did this affect you? And did it change how and what you wrote about?

Eugene Giudice  21:06

Yes, it changed me because it made me realize my own to a certain extent impotency against many of these forces. I mean, some of these systems and things have been in place for generations, how we educate people, how we do policing, how we handle criminal justice, it goes back to you know, even before the pilgrim days, and sometimes individuals like myself, who have agency who get treated differently because of my white skin. And because I’m a male, I felt quite impotent when I was confronted with this, and it’s caused me to think more about this. And I think that’s when I started to always repeat the phrase in the book in the readings, or in the writings talking about justice, compassion and inclusion every I think every single one of them makes a reference circles back to justice, compassion and inclusion. If we’re not getting that, right. I don’t care how much you do policy wise, how much you do funding wise, if we’re not a more ajusted people after this, if we’re not more compassionate, if we’re not more inclusive, everything else that’s done is busy work. I just busy work.

Greg Lambert  22:24

Well, I know that your second reading is directed about the George Floyd murder. Right. Would you mind reading us that passage?

Eugene Giudice  22:36

Sure. This was this was the one of the few, maybe the only one that I did on a Saturday, I made a point of taking Saturday and Sunday off from writing. But this one was I wrote on a Saturday. It’s dated May 31 2020. Says Good afternoon. I usually don’t send these messages out on the weekend. But today, I am bound in conscience because of the past few days events to say something because I remember I despair. Because I remember, I have the duty to reject despair, and that again is from Elie Wiesel. What was started as a just and righteous expression of frustration, anger, grief and mourning at the extrajudicial killing of Mr. Floyd was exploited by some of them to turn into a night of arson, looting, riots and mayhem. These people of violence do not serve well. Mr Floyd’s memory. This has given me cause to consider memories. What we remember what we forget how we respond to what we choose to remember, some will simply want to forget all these events. I am not sure this is helpful because if we forget histories lessons, we are doomed to repeat them. Some will want to remember them, but then respond to those memories with more bitterness, anger and despair. I don’t think that will get us anywhere either. I think Mr. Wiesel gives us a third way. He is calling us to remember. But to use those memories as a catalyst to change our attitude and engender hope. He may be calling us to use those memories to find somewhere deep inside each of us, and to call upon what Lincoln referred to as the better angels of our nature. This task is not without risk and pain, and cannot be accomplished without the efforts and recognition of others goodwill. No one person can change years of negative personal and institutional attitudes. We can though make small changes in the orbit in which we have some influence. Maybe a lesson from nature may be helpful. Diamonds are made up of carbon atoms. It only takes one atom from some other element wedged in that structure of those millions of carbon atoms in that diamond to give it a different, an often more rare color. Maybe we are called to be that one atom that adds color and more extraordinary brilliance to life than a close laboring with you in changing the color of diamonds,

Greg Lambert  25:08

Well, and it was a hell of a summer. Yes. So just just just brought back the memories of that specific time where everyone was still angry, hurt, confused. People were feeling like things were getting deflected that shouldn’t be. And of course, I think there was an underlying thought that this is just going to be like every other extrajudicial killing, and will eventually get swept under the rug. So I’m, I’m glad that this story did not end like most of the other stories did. So thanks for kind of bringing that back to me.

Marlene Gebauer  25:57

So Eugene, in addition to the daily writings, you also had what you’d call coffee talks with some of your peers through zoom meetings. Yep. How did you come up with that idea? And how did these work out during the pandemic?

Eugene Giudice  26:11

Those were, again, an outgrowth of the call that Mike McNamara had made to remain connected. So what I did was I started a zoom coffee break with, again, just the members of my research team. And it was just us and we do not talk shop. It’s like, the the perennial questions are, what are you growing in the garden? What do you got cooking on the stove? What are you reading at the nightstand? What do you streaming? Do you remember back in the day when dot dot dot, and then that expanded. So that’s, and I do a number of that I do four of them a week. So on Tuesdays is just the research team. And we sit and we, you know, chew the fat. Wednesday’s is what I call the big group. This is primarily information professionals, librarians across the country. And I’ve gotten some folks, you know, colleagues that from overseas, have joined on occasion, even got my brother in law to join, and he’s not an information professional, but he was able to join. So it’s, you know, again, it’s folks who can talk about the four things, what’s cooking, what are you reading, what are you streaming, that sort of thing. And then it’s really interesting, because some of the people on that call have a lot of institutional knowledge. So they go back in the day, like you remember when so and so was president of AALL, and when someone’s out with it, and so the great stories that you hear, and it’s also been a good networking opportunity, not in you know, like, everybody’s looking for it. But here’s, here’s an example. We have a student who she’s working in a firm, and she comes regularly to the coffee break. And she was having some trouble at school because she couldn’t get the one class that she needed. Another person who was very senior and very well placed. He said, No, no, if you can’t get the class, you go, and you say, you know, tell them, you know, put together like an independent study. And she was able to do it, she put together an independent study that fulfilled the requirement and put her closer to the, to the degree. So I feel good that I was able to connect people that way to lend a helping hand from, from what I call us a seasoned old hand in the trade to a younger person in the trade. So that’s the Wednesday call. The Thursday call is just with a tight little circle of people, I used to sit near in the office, and then Friday, I have another call with Dentons people, not necessarily from my group, but you know, attorneys, and I like to keep my Dentons folks as sort of separate, because if somebody wants to bitch and moan about something inside, it’s like we’re keeping it in the house. And that’s spilled over into my personal life. Because now on Saturdays, my wife has a zoom call with her best friends, every Saturday, and then every other Tuesday, she has a call with some college friends. So we’ve been able to use the technology to keep people connected. And they’ve said over and over and people on the calls have said this has been a godsend. One of the vendors who comes on the call, and she’s upset when she misses the call. I was making a comment about how I, you know, I might be dialing down the email, she says, but don’t call don’t cancel the calls. I’ll take it over if you want me to take it over that kind of. So it’s filling a need. It’s building community. And that’s the important thing.

Marlene Gebauer  29:13

Yeah, it’s it’s funny, because just talking to people about you know, I mean, a lot of a lot of folks did like zoom calls and things like that to try and stay connected. And and what I seem to hear all the time is is that people really got to know one another better. I mean, y, you knoe what do you cooking and what do you streaming and and, you know, people really got to learn more about one another. Probably more than they would have if this hadn’t happened, you know, because people were more willing to open up

Greg Lambert  29:45

what they picked as their background wallpaper.

Eugene Giudice  29:48

Yeah, yeah. That’s always good for a few laughs

Greg Lambert  29:53

Yeah, I’m glad I’m glad Tiger King kind of went away. So

Eugene Giudice  29:57

yeah, yeah, yeah, actually, that was a very good That engendered some very interesting discussions about Tiger King. Yes.

Marlene Gebauer  30:04

I forgot all about Tiger King See? So it will, let’s face it. Yes, yes. Maybe we should forget about that. So Eugene, I know you have a third passage that you want to share with us. So, you know, please, please do

Eugene Giudice  30:20

if this one was from January 7 of this year, and it did not go unnoticed what happened on January 6. And so this one was sort of, in response to that it was my attempt to make a little bit of sense out of what happened on the sixth of January. When it starts Good morning. I have tried not to be politically partisan in these daily messages. But I cannot let the events that occurred yesterday in Washington DC pass without comment. Those who would make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable and that was from President Kennedy. Every election that cycle, we have a peaceful revolution. People are elected or retained in office based in how they have worked for the electorate. Yesterday, we saw the effect of those who would thwart that peaceful revolution. I am afraid that those who would condone or in any way justify these actions are as Winston Churchill put it, riding to and fro upon tigers, from which they dare not dismount. The question for all of us now is how to continue the peaceful revolutions that President Kennedy spoke of. Each day, I would submit that each of us has a chance to create a peaceful revolution. Not a revolution based on arms of coercion, but a revolution from inside of us. We can daily choose to change to reject the attitudes and actions that would foster division, exclusion, injustice, and mercilessness. The word revolution comes from the root word to revolve, meaning to move in a circle around a central axis. What are we going to have for our central axis? We have a choice. We can either have an axis that states, I got mine, or an axis based on justice, compassion and inclusion. As we look back on yesterday’s events in the nation’s capital, it may be worth reflecting on something that presidents Kennedy’s brother said, what has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyrs cause has ever been stilled by an assassin’s bullet. No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorder. a sniper is only a coward, not a hero. And an uncontrollable mob is the voice of madness, not the voice of the people. And that was from Robert Kennedy. The revolution from within is very much taking the long view of history. This sort of revolution takes time and it is not without setbacks. But if we want to leave any sort of legacy for future generations to build on, wouldn’t it be better to leave them a foundation of those quiet interior revolutions that has caused each of us in some way to turn away from selfishness and to turn to care and compassion for others? What will be your personal peaceful revolution today? Walking with you as we plan the revolution from within. And one thing though, I want to also highlight is something else that really informed me is Victor Frankels speaks about choices. We all have choices to make. And I, I use these writings to challenge others, but mainly to challenge myself What other choice do I have now, to make, that’s why this has been such an important thing for me to doing the writing because it’s not just for like, folks who are reading it, I have changed inside. This has been a part of exploration and growth for myself, I need to start thinking about and doing these things. Because I would be the ultimate hypocrite if I said, Okay, you know, here’s a great, you know, list of things and, you know, start, you know, reading and doing and thinking this way, and then I is then then I go back to Well, I got mine, you know, so it’s been helpful for me. Maybe I’m getting more out of it than maybe other people I’m not sure.

Greg Lambert  34:14

Well, the writings in your book, the reflections during a pandemic, it begins back in March of 2020. And it ends in March of 2021. Right, but I know because I get the emails that you’re still adding to the writings now. So what are you what are you been writing about since since the book came out?

Eugene Giudice  34:32

I think I’ve been more focused. I’ve been more post pandemic oriented. I’ve been thinking more about not getting back to normal, because there was a lot wrong with the old normal. But now we have an opportunity to again to build and create something new and different. So it’s sort of forward looking. I’m not doing them five days a week. Five days a week, in anything is a real Yeah, it’s a grind. It’s a real grind. So I do them on Monday. Tuesdays and Fridays, and the thinking is that maybe around Labor Day, I’ll turn the project down and sort of stop writing and then assemble a second volume with everything. So from it would be from March of last year, all the way through Labor Day are, you know, September of this year? That’ll be an interesting sized book I

Marlene Gebauer  35:23

say, that’s gonna say you sure you don’t want to do Volume Two?

Greg Lambert  35:29

Well, Eugene Giudice, I want to thank you very much for coming onto the show and sharing these experiences and the writing’s with us. So before we let you go, Where can the listeners find your book?

Eugene Giudice  35:43

The book is available on amazon.com as a print on demand, and also an E book. The easiest way to find it would be to Google my full name Eugene, Michael Giudice because if you don’t, you might end up with that woman from Real Housewives of NEw Jersey. is not related to me, her or husband are not related to me. I am going on record as saying that,

Greg Lambert  36:08

Marlene, are they related to you?

Marlene Gebauer  36:10

No.

Eugene Giudice  36:12

It’s and it’s also available on the Barnes and Noble page as both an E book and a print on demand book. And hopefully it’ll be it’ll be found in public libraries. I’m trying to get it into the nice College Libraries where I went to school. It’s in the Public Library at the Melrose Park public library where I served as a trustee about 10,000 years ago. I’m working to get it into the Chicago Public Library. So hopefully, it’ll be in a library near you.

Greg Lambert  36:36

Good luck. Well, thanks. Thanks again.

Eugene Giudice  36:38

Thank you, Greg. Thank you, Marlene.

Greg Lambert  36:46

Well, Marlene, I know the the number one thing that I enjoyed about this was actually learning how to say Eugene’s name properly.

Marlene Gebauer  36:54

Yeah, because we neither one of us this is this is like the second case where we have been saying it the wrong way for a long time

Greg Lambert  37:01

for a long time. So just have to remember it rhymes with fun to say.

Eugene Giudice  37:05

Yep. Fun to say, yeah.

Greg Lambert  37:09

Well, you know, it was it was really interesting to look back, as you know, and take this snapshot of time and try to think back, okay, this is, gosh, this was about when this happened. And this is, you know, obviously there were big, you know, the the George Floyd murder and the Capitol insurrection, obviously, two big placeholders in time. You know, there’s, there’s a number of stories in here that that kind of take you back and remember some of the little things that were going on.

Marlene Gebauer  37:42

Yeah, I mean, if you think as you sort of go through the situations, you know, you, you forget some of those small things, or you forget how it was in the beginning, as opposed to, you know, sort of where we’re at now. And so I think that was a good reflection. And you know, what I have to say, I mean, a lot of what he was writing, I mean, it was very, you know, it’s very thought provoking. It was very inspiring. I mean, I’m, I’m feeling like, okay, I really need to dig into this a little more, and just, you know, just for my own process of changing. So, we thank Eugene very much for coming on the show.

Marlene Gebauer  38:20

Before we go, we want to remind listeners to take the time to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, rate and review us as well. If you have comments about today’s show, or suggestions for a future show, you can reach us on Twitter @gebauerm or @glambert. Or you can call The Geek in Review hotline at 713-487-7270 or email us at GeekinReviewpodcast@gmail.com And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry David DeCicca Thank you, Jerry. Thanks, Jerry.

Greg Lambert  38:52

All right, Marlene, I will talk to you later.

Marlene Gebauer  38:55

Bye bye.