There is no reason why we should let an emergency go to waste. So, we’ve both taken on a side project while we work remotely. Marlene’s new daily ILTA blog presents a quick update on the skills we need to work on while we’re working from home. Her first post, Be Sheltering: Not Sheltered discusses a number of initiatives going on which we all can contribute. You can find out more on the ILTA blog page.
Greg began his daily podcast miniseries, In Seclusion, this week. These are short, less than 15 minutes, interviews of an eclectic group of people ranging from bar and professional association leaders, legal information professionals, vendors, consultants, lawyers, etc. Pretty much anyone who works in the legal industry and has a story to tell about their new work from home situation. The first episode is included in this podcast. Greg talked with Jim Calloway from the Oklahoma Bar Association regarding how they are helping their lawyers, courts, and community continue to work in this new environment. You can subscribe to In Seclusion on Spotify, or Apple Podcasts, or where ever you listen to podcasts.
Of course, we’ll still be doing The Geek In Review Podcast as our primary, secondary, job.
Stay safe everyone!
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Please take the time to rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Contact us anytime by tweeting us at @gebauerm or @glambert. Or, you can call The Geek in Review hotline at 713-487-7270 and leave us a message. You can email us at geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com. As always, the great music you hear on the podcast is from Jerry David DeCicca.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Marlene Gebauer: All right, let me see. Show them again. That’s a nice cup.
[00:00:03] Greg Lambert: It is. It is. I’ve got like three of these.
[00:00:06] Marlene Gebauer: It’s got a good shape.
[00:00:07] Greg Lambert: It does.
[00:00:08] Marlene Gebauer: Then you should give one to your second favorite podcaster then.
[00:00:12] Greg Lambert: Ooh, Bob wants one? Shut up.
[00:00:24] Marlene Gebauer: Welcome to The Geek in Review, the podcast focus on innovative and creative ideas in the legal profession. I’m Marlene Gebauer.
[00:00:32] Greg Lambert: And I’m Greg Lambert. So Marlene, before we get into this special episode of The Geek in Review, we want to take just a moment and say that we hope that everyone is staying safe and healthy out there. and staying sane in this really bizarre time we’re living in right now.
[00:00:49] Marlene Gebauer: Absolutely. I can say that we’re safe and happy. I don’t know how sane I am right now, but healthy.
[00:00:56] Greg Lambert: Yeah. Well, it’s weird because we started talking about this work-at- home scenario last month. But I got to say, the speed at which this hit us was really surprising.
[00:01:06] Marlene Gebauer: Yeah. I mean, we were really ahead of a giant curve. I don’t think that was the intention, but certainly that has been how it’s played out.
[00:01:16] Greg Lambert: Yeah. Well, that being said, I think the people that I’ve worked with and the people that I know around the legal industry, they’re adapting pretty well to this new work model. I know around the legal industry, they’re adapting pretty well to this new work model.
[00:01:25] Marlene Gebauer: Yeah, I will agree with you. I think, and I, you know, I got to give props out to sort of technical support. It has been remarkably smooth getting so many people online and remote in such a short time. I mean, certainly there’s going to be hiccups, but really not as bad as you would think.
[00:01:46] Greg Lambert: Yeah. So yeah, hats off to the IT people. So Marlene, I think both you and I subscribe to the thought that, you know, never let an emergency go to waste. So we wanted to bring the listeners a special episode of the Geek and Review, where we talk about the individual side projects that we’re both working on to help us and to help others understand what we’re all going through. So Marlene, tell us about your new side project.
[00:02:13] Marlene Gebauer: Yes, so I have a blog on ILTA now, and it doesn’t have a name yet. So, you know, Marlene’s extra special COVID-19 blog. Exactly, that’s about where we’re at. So if anybody has any ideas, you know, send them to me. Literally, I was just struggling with the titles of the actual entries this past week. So yeah, it’s a short form. So basically, I’m looking at this. This is my Seth Godin blog, short form, just sort of musings on COVID- 19, but also kind of how it relates to technology and KM and design thinking and just something, just a little bite for people to take a look at each day.
[00:03:04] Greg Lambert: Just out of curiosity, do you have to be an ILTA member to get to the blog?
[00:03:09] Marlene Gebauer: No, I don’t believe you do.
[00:03:10] Greg Lambert: Okay, cool.
[00:03:11] Marlene Gebauer: But we’ll find out because we’ll put a link to it and we’ll find out if people can access it or not.
[00:03:18] Greg Lambert: I think probably most of our listeners are ILTA members as well. So, all right. So let me tell you a little bit about my special side project. I’ve decided that I really wanted to talk with a number of people to see how they’re adjusting to this new situation of working from home. So one of the best things about being a blogger on Three Geeks for the past dozen or so years and, you know, being a crazy extrovert. You’re a crazy extrovert? I know. Surprising, isn’t it?
[00:03:48] Marlene Gebauer: Shock.
[00:03:49] Greg Lambert: Yeah. But I’ve, you know, I’ve met a lot of really smart and interesting people in the legal industry. So I decided to begin a daily podcast mini series that will last until we get back to some sort of workplace normalcy, you know, once this pandemic dissipates. I’m calling it the Inseclusion Podcast and it’s going to be…
[00:04:09] Marlene Gebauer: Good name. So you figured out the name.
[00:04:11] Greg Lambert: I figured out the name.
[00:04:12] Marlene Gebauer: Good job.
[00:04:12] Greg Lambert: Yeah, I can help you on yours.
[00:04:15] Marlene Gebauer: Thank you.
[00:04:16] Greg Lambert: So this is going to be a daily podcast, typically less than 15 minutes long, you know, because I got a day job and a blog and another podcast.
[00:04:23] Marlene Gebauer: I got a day job and a blog and another podcast and, oh yeah, I got family too.
[00:04:31] Greg Lambert: It’s like, all right, hashtag overachiever.
[00:04:35] Marlene Gebauer: But I really felt like this was something that at a minimum would help me cope with learning as we struggled to find our footing in this brand new work environment. And, you know, and again, no one really anticipated that at the beginning of the year.
[00:04:49] Greg Lambert: I will say, so I was running yesterday and I actually listened to all three that were up at the time and I found them incredibly useful. All three of them. I’ve actually passed different ones on to different people I know based on feedback I’m getting from them in terms of what they’re kind of dealing with. I will just say one example that the, you know, for people who have kids at home and who don’t have space, like their own space to do their work, I feel for you because in my old house, that’s exactly what I had. Now I do have some space that I can shut the door, which is great. But if you don’t, just rearranging furniture, bookcases or sofas or something that basically carve out that space for you and setting parameters and setting times where, okay, you know, at this point, this is when I do work. And at this point, this is when I, you know, I interact with my kids or my family.
[00:05:51] Marlene Gebauer: Really, really, really good advice.
[00:05:51] Greg Lambert: Yeah.
[00:05:54] Marlene Gebauer: And that was Andrea Canovina.
[00:05:54] Greg Lambert: Yes. Giving that advice. Yeah, it’s going to be an eclectic group of guests. And so as long as they’re- That’s the best type. Yeah, as long as they’re doing something in the legal industry, they’re welcome to be on the show. And I think since the episodes are short, I’m going to play one of the first ones here. In fact, the very first ones.
[00:06:14] Marlene Gebauer: The inaugural one.
[00:06:15] Greg Lambert: The inaugural one. So here’s my talk with an old Oklahoma colleague, Jim Calloway from the Oklahoma Bar Association. Hey everyone, I’m Greg Lambert and this is the In Seclusion podcast mini-series. Over the next few weeks, or however long it takes us to get back to where we can return to our office locations, I’ll be talking to legal professionals to find out how they are coping with this new work-from-home model. The interviews are about 10 minutes or so, and we’ll hit the highlights of how things are going across the spectrum of the legal industry. Today, I went back to the start of my legal career and brought in an Oklahoma colleague. All right, Jim, you ready?
[00:07:01] Speaker D: I am.
[00:07:02] Greg Lambert: All right. Well, first of all, thanks for jumping on the call so quickly. I appreciate that.
[00:07:06] Speaker D: Well, I’m happy to do that. And we’re going to have to, our members are going to require a lot of support from the OBA and all lawyers across the country, particularly solo and small firm lawyers.
[00:07:17] Greg Lambert: Jim Callaway is the Management Assistance Program Director at the Oklahoma Bar Association and is a well-known tech and law practice management guru in the legal industry. and is a well-known tech and law practice management guru in the legal industry.
[00:07:28] Speaker D: I think this is an odd thing for us people to try to be organized and plan in advance or whatever. You literally can’t plan for six months from now ’cause there’s so many potential futures out there. But where the OBA, our lobby is closed and visitors and public are not allowed in, but we are still mostly working from home and we’re providing a lot of services. I’ve also found, Greg, that having the tools and knowing how to use all these tools is actually a little bit of a curse. You got a lot of work to do. I see all these other things of people trying to fill their empty time. I haven’t had that yet.
[00:08:00] Greg Lambert: There’s definitely a blessing and a curse being the guy that knows the technology. Was there any key event that happened that really let you guys know that what we were about to experience is just gonna be different?
[00:08:15] Speaker D: We were monitoring the news and started working on our disaster plan, remote working plan several weeks ago. But I really think, like most of America, a lawyer told me the last six days seem like six months. And I think that’s probably what it seems like for a lot of us, Greg. So we’ve been planning for weeks, but now we’re trying to protect our staff because even though there’s temporary inconveniences now, we’re gonna be needed to help our members as well, or all of the Bar Association and Law Library and other people across the country.
[00:08:47] Greg Lambert: What are some of the core things that, especially there in Oklahoma, you have a majority of your lawyers are going to be solo and small firm attorneys. What is it that they need to think about when working remotely? And what’s kind of the equipment that they’re going to need on hand over the next few weeks?
[00:09:05] Speaker D: they’re going to need on hand over the next few weeks? Well, definitely, I came up with kind of six real quick key points. And I’ll go with, or five, I think I’ll go with you real quick. First of all, if you’re one of the few lawyers who hadn’t set up to accept credit cards and e-checks, you need to do that immediately. And so that’s a really urgent thing. And again, some of your older clients who may be sheltering in place, the e-check method may be easier for them if your credit card processor hadn’t set that up yet. Because we’re at the point now, how odd this sounds, but an electronic payment is more valuable than a check mailed to the office, because that has to be dealt with and processed where you can deal with your electronic payments from home or any remote location. So I think that’s a good deal. We have a credit card processor we like at the bar, as do many other bars. So that’s the first thing. And this credit card processor, LawPay, helps you set up online payments. And I think that’s really important. So if you’re not set up for online payments, I think that’s a priority. And then I think the next priority is if you’re working from home, look around and figure out what you really need there. Because we’ve always worked, most lawyers have worked from home as a, you know, I’ll be there two days working on a brief or I’m sick or that kind of thing. And the sustained work there is going to be a little bit different. So for example, if you’re already locked into your house, and you’ve got to kind of practice where you’re not having to go out, you may want to think about ordering some extra printer cartridges I haven’t delivered your home just so you have a printer. If you’re still at the office, you may want to bring home a ream of paper, take some mailing supplies and envelopes home, you know, we hope the post office continues to function there. They have a tradition of doing that. And also, if you run out of stamps, don’t forget, you can go to www.usps.com and buy stamps, and they’ll deliver them to you. Or it may be time to set up for e-stamps or like that. Then I think too, if you’re going to be working from home for an extended period, you need a good laptop. And so if you’ve never bought a laptop, there are a lot of these computer companies that are doing, you know, 24, 12 months free financing and that kind of thing. But buying a business class laptop, I think is really important. And then finally, if you haven’t yet committed to cloud-based practice management software, that is a very important thing to look at. And so for some of the lawyers who are going to be home without enough to keep them busy, which hadn’t been me so far, setting up a practice management solution. management solution, figuring out how password managers work, if you haven’t done that yet, schedule’s gonna be really important. And so your schedule may look a lot different in a week or two where you’re dealing with client matters or whatever, just two or three hours a day, and you’ve got some other time. And so scheduling two hours where I’m finally gonna decide which password manager, buy it and download it, that type of thing. Probably more you want to hear briefly, but I think those are kind of the urgent things that I see for solo and small firm lawyers.
[00:11:57] Greg Lambert: How about lawyers connecting with their clients? Especially if they’re not going to let clients come in and meet them face-to-face, which I think is going to be the norm now. Yeah, and I think once people and the shelter at home for 15 days, you’re going to have a hard time getting them out for anything.
[00:12:15] Speaker D: So I think that clients will feel the same way. So we’re connecting through Zoom video conferencing. It’s probably been amazing to see that Zoom has kind of been the go- to video conferencing solution, even though there’s many of them. It’s nice and easy to run. And I think letting your clients see your face is good. Even if your clients are at home and don’t have a webcam, if you’re just having a conversation where they can see your face and whatever, it’s a more personal situation. We’re gonna see a lot of changes in rules temporarily. I already saw a court, I believe it was in Virginia, a bankruptcy court issued an order saying, we don’t need wet signatures on bankruptcy petitions anymore. That’s just an unnecessary danger. And so figure out a way to get your e-signature or some other process where the client can’t later say they didn’t sign it. And so boy, with e-filing and electronic signatures, you know, that’s good. We also have been talking about a lot of people staying home, worried about their mortality. I’m not trying to use this as a marketing opportunity, but some of those people are going to think it’s time to get their last will and testament done. So I think lawyers need to think about that. We have an electronic notary provision that few lawyers in Oklahoma are that familiar with, because it’s pretty new. And I bet we all get pretty familiar with that. And I asked a probate lawyer, I said, so if your witnesses stand outside and watch you sign through the window, and then you toss the will out the window for them to sign it, is that good? The probate lawyer said, yeah, I think that’s good. That’s actually not a bad idea. I think a lot of creative out-of-the-box solutions are going to be coming down. But we don’t know if this is a two, four, six, eight week thing. And of course, the worst prediction you hear is we’ll still, until there’s a vaccine 18 months from now, life may not change totally.
[00:14:00] Greg Lambert: Well, let’s hope it doesn’t go to that, but I guess prepare in case it does. Let me ask you about the courts there in Oklahoma. One, what are they doing to reduce the risk of the spread of the virus? And then two, how are they going to make up this work from the dockets?
[00:14:30] Speaker D: You know, I think at this point, we have to focus on life-saving rather than other things. But right now, we have a court order. In fact, if you let me give you two resources real quick, the Oklahoma Bar Association, www.okbar.org/COVID-19, has a resource page that we will be updating. www.okbar.org slash COVID-19 has a resource page that we will be updating. And then our Supreme Court network, a place where you actually used to work.
[00:14:51] Greg Lambert: Yeah, I’m very familiar with it.
[00:14:53] Speaker D: They have a set of links of all the courthouses and how they’ve reduced their operations. And of course, our court entered an emergency order, suspending most civil things and non-emergency things. But closing a courthouse, some of these people whose restaurants have been shut down may want to sue over it. If somebody’s been arrested, it’s more important than ever now to get them arraigned and if they can post bond. to get them out of the system. So, you know, in terms of closing courthouses completely, that’s out of my pay grade, but I do think that it’s something that is problematic. Now, our court entered an order tolling all statutes, or extending, I think they said, all dates in all courts in state for 30 days. And civil cases are largely shut down, but, you know, at some point, there’s going to be some challenges. There were some dysfunctional families that are now sheltered in place together that is going to create a problem. Lawyers are going to have to help. And then finally, one more resource to my blog, Jim Callaway’s Law Practice Tips, you can Google that. lawpracticetipsblog.com. I’m going to gear that up next week, and I’m also going to start doing some video things for our members. So most of our stuff will be outside of the firewall, free for any lawyer anywhere to use. And so we’re hoping that that’ll work. I’m now setting up a video page. I plan on doing it anyway, but like so many things in life, my timing changed now.
[00:16:14] Greg Lambert: changed now. I completely, I think we all understand. Last question for you. What do you think is going to catch the attorneys or others there in the legal industry and what do you think may catch them off guard?
[00:16:28] Speaker D: I think the problem is going to be with huge unemployment and all businesses closed, that their cash flow is just going to drop off the cliff. And I think that’s one thing that’s going to catch them off guard. I also would, if we’re talking about closing though, I’d urge lawyers to understand that this, whether it’s two weeks or more, this is a marathon, not a sprint. And I have read a tweet series from a person that’s been through many types of disasters in other parts of the world. And he noted the first five days, you’re just kind of coping. And if you just try to work as hard as you can and burn yourself out and you’re in a panic, you’re just going to harm yourself. And so, I think we all need to pay more attention than ever to our mental health. And if you’re at home, you need to work for your clients, but that may only be a six-hour day in the future. So, think about something you’ve been meaning to do, that garage cleaning out project or whatever it might be for your office. And really, I’ve lost two hours of, you know, 25 minutes each way at a good day and an hour each day at a bad day of commuting time when I finally get to 100% working from home. And so, I need to do something else with those two hours rather than say I got to binge watch Orange is the New Black or something like that. So, I’ve seen a lot of lawyers who are literally talking about having a headset attached to their phone and they’re just walking in circles around their house just to get some physical activity while they’re talking to their clients, you know. So, take care of the main part of your law firm.
[00:18:03] Greg Lambert: law firm, you. Right. All right. Hey, Jim, again, thanks for jumping on the call with me. I appreciate you taking the time.
[00:18:12] Speaker D: Happy to do that, my friend.
[00:18:13] Greg Lambert: Talk to you later.
[00:18:14] Speaker D: Stay safe.
[00:18:18] Greg Lambert: Thanks for listening to the Inseclusion podcast, the inaugural episode, Marlene. It is available on pretty much any of your favorite podcasts. It took Apple Podcasts a little bit to get us going, but that happened last night. So, I’m happy. So, contact me if you want to be on the show and would like to share your stories about working from home.
[00:18:39] Marlene Gebauer: And also, please take a look at my new mini blog series on ILTA. We will have the link on the 3Geek site. And I just want to note, we will be continuing with the Geek and Review, maybe not on a weekly basis, but definitely we’re going to continue with it. So, you know,
[00:19:04] Greg Lambert: Yeah, this is our primary second job.
[00:19:07] Marlene Gebauer: And before we go, we want to remind listeners to take the time to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Rate and review us as well.
[00:19:17] Greg Lambert: Yeah. Everyone should have to have time to rate and review.
[00:19:19] Marlene Gebauer: Yes. Plenty of time. Plenty of time. If you have comments about today’s show or suggestions for a future show, you can reach us on Twitter at at Gabehowerm or at Glambert, or you can call the Geek and Review hotline at 713-487-7270 or email us at geekandreviewpodcast at gmail.com. And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry David DeSicca. Thank you, Jerry.
[00:19:45] Greg Lambert: Thanks, Jerry. All right, everyone be safe. Talk to you later, Marlene.
[00:19:48] Marlene Gebauer: Be well. Be well and happy. Bye, everyone.